Episode 101
Ryan Medler – Born to Be a Trial Lawyer: A Lifelong Quest to Be the Best
At four years old, Ryan Medler had cancer — and the doctor who nearly missed it changed his family's legal history. His mother quit her defense firm and launched the plaintiff practice that Ryan now calls home, Medler Law. He joins host Dan Ambrose to share highlights of his path, which includes 11 trials to date. Tune in as he reflects on his first trial that earned him thousands less than he’d asked for, his innovative decision to bring a habitability claim into a slip-and-fall case, and the chainsaw case that he brought under a section of the California labor code. As he says: It’s more interesting than it sounds.
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2026 Programming
☑️ Witness Preparation & Direct Examination, May 8 - 9, Hermosa Beach, CA
☑️ Dark Arts Trial Warcraft Bootcamp, May 27 - June 2, Huntington Beach, CA
☑️ TLU Beach, June 3-6, Huntington Beach, CA
Episode Snapshot
- Ryan grew up in St. Louis, attended UCLA for his undergraduate degree, and then moved to New York, managing nightclubs for several years before enrolling at New York Law School on a full scholarship.
- Ryan began his legal career as a floater at Wilshire Law Firm before joining trial attorney Gene Sullivan's five-person firm, where he co-first-chaired nine trials in just over three years. He now practices at the firm that his parents founded.
- In a slip-and-fall case against a slumlord with a leaking skylight over a staircase, Ryan won over $6.5 million at verdict — a figure that grew to more than $9 million by the time it was paid out.
- Ryan added a habitability claim to that slip-and-fall so he could introduce photos of mold, rats, holes in walls, and exposed wiring. Post-trial, jurors confirmed that the photos made them so angry they raised all damages across the board.
- Ryan's takeaway from his “chainsaw” case under a California labor code: Rather than attacking the opposing witness directly, he used that witness to expose six lies told by the defendant, defense counsel, and defense expert. The defense settled for the $1.5 million policy limit.
- Ryan will teach a case analysis session and trial preparation workshop at TLU Beach.
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Transcript
The most dangerous place you can be as
a trial lawyer is to think you've got it
Speaker:figured out. I'm still trying to get
better. I still have the passion for it.
Speaker:I believe in it. Everyone can learn to
do what I do. And yet there's a group
Speaker:here that continues to get
extraordinary verdicts.
Speaker:Trial Lawyers University
is revolutionizing,
Speaker:educating lawyers to be
better trial lawyers.
Speaker:It's been invaluable to me.
Trail Lawyers University,
Speaker:where the Titans come to train.
Produced and powered by LawPods.
Speaker:Today we got my old and dear friend Ryan
Medler with us because Ryan has just
Speaker:recently started his own law
firm with his parents. And
Speaker:what's it been now? Just about
six months, just a few months.
Speaker:Just a few months, just as of
January. So about three months now.
Speaker:All right. And Ryan, when did we
first meet? Was it what did you say?
Speaker:2018?
Speaker:2018. So like eight years ago.
Speaker:So you have a better memory of
this tonight. So tell me about,
Speaker:because a lot of people know me,
Speaker:they got this story of
how I met Dan Ambrose.
Speaker:Everyone remembers how
they met you. I know.
Speaker:It's amazing. It's like a.
Speaker:Funny.
Speaker:Story. So how did we meet?
Speaker:We met at my first ever Cala event.
Speaker:So I had just graduated New York Law
School and I didn't know anyone in
Speaker:California. So I had gone to
college out here years earlier,
Speaker:but in the legal world, specifically
the PI world, I didn't know anybody.
Speaker:So I went to this big CALA event. And
even though I'm a very confident guy,
Speaker:I was a little nervous because
I didn't know anybody there.
Speaker:And most people there,
everybody was very nice,
Speaker:but not many people really spoke
much to the young law school student.
Speaker:But you were there. You were one of
the only people that was not in a tie.
Speaker:And I remember thinking you
looked very approachable.
Speaker:And I introduced myself
and you were super nice.
Speaker:And I remember thinking this is one of
the only people that I've ever met who
Speaker:seems as excitable when it
comes to trials as I am,
Speaker:because I've always been the trial guy.
I've always known that this is what I
Speaker:wanted to do. And so I really wanted
to get plugged in and I thought,
Speaker:if I can meet even one person that can
be a good relationship for getting me
Speaker:into trials, this will have
been a success. It'd be.
Speaker:Worth the trip.
Speaker:That was you, man.
Speaker:All right. You said you've always known
that you wanted to be a trial lawyer.
Speaker:Say more what you mean by that.
Speaker:In kindergarten, when you go around
the circle and everyone says, oh,
Speaker:I want to be an astronaut. I
want to be a baseball player.
Speaker:I stood up at six years old and
said, I want to be not only a lawyer.
Speaker:I said I wanted to be a plaintiff's
personal injury trial lawyer at six years
Speaker:old. And the reason is that I've seen
it before. My parents are lawyers.
Speaker:And so growing up, that's what my mom was.
Speaker:She was a plaintiff's
personal injury trial lawyer.
Speaker:And my dad was a personal
injury trial lawyer.
Speaker:He became a plaintiff's
lawyer years later, but I
knew that's what I want to do.
Speaker:But your mom, how did your mom,
Speaker:because your dad stayed a defense
lawyer for much longer than your mom,
Speaker:but when did your mom know she
wanted to be a plaintiff's lawyer?
Speaker:It's actually a pretty crazy story.
When I was four years old, I had cancer.
Speaker:And my mom, she didn't
know that I had cancer,
Speaker:but she just had a mother's intuition.
She knew something was wrong.
Speaker:And so she took me to a doctor, the same
doctor she'd been going to for decades.
Speaker:And he basically said that
she was being a histrionic,
Speaker:overworrisome mom. And he
didn't run any tests on me.
Speaker:And so being the badass that
she was, this is before Google.
Speaker:Instead of pulling out
Google on her phone,
Speaker:she goes to the front secretary and
she says, let me see your yellow-.
Speaker:Pages.
Speaker:Yellow pages.
Speaker:And she starts calling up other doctors
at the doctor's office and she calls
Speaker:three other doctors.
Speaker:And eventually the other two doctors
also thought she was being crazy.
Speaker:The third doctor ran tests on me and
it turns out I really did have cancer.
Speaker:And so they operated just a few
days later. His name was Dr. Bell.
Speaker:He saved my life. But when my mom
went back to work the next week,
Speaker:she at the time was working as a defense
attorney for medical malpractice cases.
Speaker:And so she's heard the way that attorneys
and these doctors were talking about
Speaker:plaintiffs as being money
grubbing and faking. And here,
Speaker:these doctors the previous week,
they could have cost me my life.
Speaker:And she realized this is not it.
This is not why I got into this.
Speaker:And so she quit that day. And a few
days later, she opened up her own firm,
Speaker:the Medler Law Firm,
Speaker:which I'm now a member of.
My mom started a few decades ago,
Speaker:and I just thought that was really
inspirational. And so from a young age,
Speaker:I thought that's what I want to do.
Speaker:And so you get this
vision, which is great,
Speaker:because then it's good to have a target
when we're going through life. But
Speaker:what do you remember about ... Let
me say, you said you had cancer.
Speaker:So what do you remember about that
experience? Because it seems so young,
Speaker:you wouldn't remember any of it.
Speaker:Yeah, this might sound weird,
Speaker:but I tell people that I remember the
good parts of cancer, which is crazy.
Speaker:And what I mean by that is that I
had an incredible set of support
Speaker:people in my life, mainly my mom and
my dad, all the people in my life.
Speaker:And so because I was so young,
Speaker:I've repressed what I'm sure are bad
memories that must exist out there,
Speaker:but I just remember waking up every day
being loved by the people who love me.
Speaker:I remember it wasn't Make a Wish,
it was called the Dream Factory,
Speaker:but it was a similar opportunity where
kids with cancer got to make a wish and I
Speaker:got to make my wish I went to Disney
World. And even though I was bald,
Speaker:I had my chemotherapy drugs and I
had lost my hair. And the rest of it,
Speaker:I just remember being loved. And I just
remember thinking how blessed I was
Speaker:because I had a lot of friends who
weren't so lucky who lost their lives at
Speaker:young ages. But even them,
Speaker:they were just happy to their dying days
because they knew that every day is a
Speaker:blessing. So sometimes when I meet people,
they say, wow, you're very excitable.
Speaker:You're very full of life. And I think
that's- You are very excitable and.
Speaker:Very full of life.
Speaker:Right? Well, if anyone would know,
that would be you, sir. I know that,
Speaker:but I'm just saying. So I think
that's where I get mine from.
Speaker:It's from that young age of realizing
that every day is a blessing and we got to
Speaker:just seize the day.
Speaker:This is true. Season it.
We are. Season it, we are.
Speaker:So you grew up in Missouri, is that right?
Speaker:That's right. St. Louis.
Speaker:St. Louis. So how did you
find your way to California?
Speaker:Well, after high school, I love St.
Louis, loved Missouri. It was great,
Speaker:but I knew I wanted to do something new.
Speaker:And so I'm kind of a wimp
when it comes to the cold.
Speaker:So I knew I wanted to come
to California. I hear.
Speaker:You on that one, buddy.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:From Michigan.
Speaker:You feel me?
Speaker:Cold, the dark, the dreary.
Speaker:I think most sane people can easily
reject those weather patterns.
Speaker:It's like here, we have the
beach, we have the sunshine, we.
Speaker:Have the.
Speaker:Ocean.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's a much better life
out here in California.
Speaker:Well, it was the life for me. Put it that
way. Me too. I was very happy. Me too.
Speaker:So you come out to California for college?
Speaker:For college, yeah. At UCLN.
Speaker:Wow. It's impressive.
That's a good school.
Speaker:And did you participate in
any extracurricular activities
Speaker:in college that help you
prepare to become a lawyer?
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, since actually
seventh grade, my extracurricular,
Speaker:I did other things, speech and
debate, other things here and there,
Speaker:but the main thing-.
Speaker:More manly things, not-.
Speaker:More manly things. That's right.
Speaker:Speech and debate.
Speaker:Chess club. That's right. Yes. I
legitimately was on the Frisbee team.
Speaker:Fisby team.
Speaker:Yeah. Only the toughest stuff. Coolest.
Speaker:Guys.
Speaker:Coolest guys. No, mock trial.
Mock trial was always my thing.
Speaker:And so from seventh grade all
the way up through high school,
Speaker:all the way to college.
When I was in college,
Speaker:I was on UCLA's mock trial team
as well. And that's my everything.
Speaker:That's what I loved more than anything
else in the world because it gave me a
Speaker:chance to be in a courtroom.
Speaker:And even though they say
it's mock and it's pretend,
Speaker:the lessons that I learned in mock trial
are still lessons that I use to this
Speaker:day. My first ever mock trial
coach was my dad in seventh grade,
Speaker:and he taught me things that I
still use to this day. And so yeah,
Speaker:when I was in UCLA, I
was on the trial team.
Speaker:And then when I eventually
went to law school,
Speaker:I continued being on the trial team.
Speaker:And we started a mock trial program for
some kids up in the Bronx and I would go
Speaker:up and I would teach them how to do mock
trial. And so it's always been my thing
Speaker:that I care about a lot because it
gives me a chance to do what I love.
Speaker:Mock trial. My girlfriend
Noel does mock trial too.
Speaker:She's very passionate about the.
Speaker:Mock trial. And she's
very good. Yeah. She's.
Speaker:Coming along quite well
with the mock trial.
Speaker:That's fantastic.
Speaker:So you spend your time in college
at UCLA and then after college,
Speaker:where do you go from there?
Speaker:Well, eventually I went to law school,
Speaker:but I had a little break in
between college and law school.
Speaker:I really wanted to move to New York and
I wanted to kind of grow up to live my
Speaker:life a little bit. And so
when I moved to New York,
Speaker:I did some non-legal things there for a
few years because I wanted just to live
Speaker:my life. So one of the funny
jobs that I did along that time,
Speaker:I worked at startups and I worked at
restaurants and I worked in retail,
Speaker:but for a while there,
Speaker:I was actually working in nightclubs
and I actually was managing nightclubs.
Speaker:And for anybody who knows me,
you know that I like to dance.
Speaker:I like to have a fun time. And so
it was great. It was so much fun.
Speaker:And so to this day, I haven't been in
the nightclub world for many, many years,
Speaker:but I still have those friends. And if
I want to go out and have a good time,
Speaker:I can always hit them up.
Speaker:And it was definitely something I'm
glad that I did because I could not have
Speaker:been Mr. Nightclub guy in
the middle of law school.
Speaker:I wanted to be able to
focus 100% on law school.
Speaker:And when I did eventually
decide to go back,
Speaker:I was able to entirely thrust myself into
it because I had a few years there to
Speaker:have fun in between.
Speaker:And so where do you go to law school?
Speaker:It's called New York Law School. And I
was proud to get a full ride scholarship.
Speaker:When I heard that earlier today,
I was shocked. I was like ...
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Believe it or not. So now.
Speaker:I'll put some other things in the context,
but we'll talk about that in a bit,
Speaker:but go on.
Speaker:Yeah. And full.
Speaker:Ride.
Speaker:Full ride and I love my time there.
It was amazing. While I was there,
Speaker:my last year I was president of
my class, which was an honor,
Speaker:president of the SBA. And I
was on the mock trial team.
Speaker:I was on the moot court
team. I was on law review.
Speaker:I did kind of anything that I could
to get involved in the community.
Speaker:I obviously was also top of
my class and- But you're.
Speaker:Actually number two in your class, right?
Speaker:Number two. Yeah. I mean.
Speaker:That's quite the top.
Speaker:Slumted at the bottom.
Speaker:Don't say I was close to top of my class.
Speaker:Close to the top.
Speaker:Of my class.
Speaker:That would be being honest with the people
who are listening to this. Thank you.
Speaker:So that'd be good.
Okay. Keeping me honest.
Speaker:Graduate near the top of your
class from law school and then you
Speaker:decided to venture back to LA
and that's where you and I meet.
Speaker:Is.
Speaker:That right?
Speaker:That's exactly right.
Speaker:And so
Speaker:let's talk about your trial lawyering
journey now that you came west to
Speaker:where it's warm and sunny.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Every day.
Speaker:The chosen.
Speaker:Land. Every day. Yes.
So you first get here,
Speaker:other than obviously meeting me was a
significant moment there. But beyond that,
Speaker:tell us how you first get started
actually being a lawyer locally here.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:my first job was at Wilshire Law Firm
and Bobby Sadian was nice enough to hire
Speaker:me. And I loved my time over at
Willshire. I spent several years there.
Speaker:When I first started working there, I was
a floater, so I worked with everybody.
Speaker:So I worked with the head
partner over there, Colin Jones.
Speaker:I worked with an incredible trial
lawyer, bless his soul, John Teller,
Speaker:who we lost too soon last year.
Speaker:And I worked with many other great lawyers
while I was over there and they all
Speaker:taught me a lot. But before I got a
chance to actually jump into trials,
Speaker:I obviously was a new attorney and I
wanted any opportunity I could to learn
Speaker:trials before I actually
was going to trial.
Speaker:So I worked with you for my first
few years as well. So I went to,
Speaker:obviously now you're
Trial Lawyers University,
Speaker:but previously you were Trojan Horse.
The Trojan.
Speaker:Horseshoe.
Speaker:The Trojan Horse, yes. The.
Speaker:Trojan Horse Method.
Speaker:The Trojan Horse Method.
Speaker:So I went to the Trojan Horse Method
events and I also had some one-on-one
Speaker:sessions with you. And
then I think of all,
Speaker:and I went to all of your overall seminars
that you did and I learned from some
Speaker:incredible people, but- But then.
Speaker:We lived in this. Ryan was so persistent.
Speaker:He moved into my building
for a year and a half,
Speaker:not only so I could whoop
his ass in ping pong. Well,
Speaker:most of the time I whipped you.
Speaker:But then he got to come to workshops
without having to get in a car. That's.
Speaker:Exactly right. Yeah. During
COVID, nobody was doing anything.
Speaker:Everybody was obviously staying
inside. And so we were safe,
Speaker:but we met up with how many? It was
like six, seven, eight of us. Something.
Speaker:Like that.
Speaker:Something like that.
Speaker:We would meet over in Dan's apartment
every week and we would meet for a long
Speaker:time, three, four hours. And
for a week, three to four hours,
Speaker:I think over the course of that year,
you said, great job, maybe once,
Speaker:because that's not what we were there
for. We were there to get better.
Speaker:And so I really valued my time
there because I came in over
Speaker:cocky. I came in thinking, "Oh,
Speaker:I've been doing all this pretend
trial stuff for all this time,
Speaker:so I must know what I'm doing."
And very quickly, I was humbled.
Speaker:And one of the things that you do that
I like is you videotape us and you have
Speaker:us watch yourself.
Speaker:And especially after you've heard the
critiques of yourself and then you're
Speaker:watching yourself, it's cringey. You're
like, "I can't believe I'm doing that.
Speaker:" I.
Speaker:Was cringing right along with you.
Speaker:Well, you know what? Yeah.
Thankfully though. Thankfully.
Speaker:We had an intervention
when you were younger.
Speaker:We did. And so you helped
me with a lot, man.
Speaker:So once I finally got that chance
to get my first real trial,
Speaker:I felt much more comfortable.
I felt like I was ready to go.
Speaker:I felt like obviously we
get better with every trial,
Speaker:every time we get up there and do it,
Speaker:but I really did feel like I had
the tools at my disposal to be
Speaker:able to go and do this.
Speaker:April 21st through 25th in
Hermosa Beach, California,
Speaker:we're hosting a bootcamp where you
will train in the fundamental skills of
Speaker:trial, witness prep and
direct, cross-examination,
Speaker:performance skills,
Speaker:which are opening statement and closing
argument and jury selection or voir
Speaker:dire, depending on where you live.
We're going to focus on eye contact,
Speaker:voice control, emotional state
control, hand and body movement,
Speaker:glance control, creating
space amongst other skills.
Speaker:And then once you learn these skills,
we're going to apply them to your case.
Speaker:So at the end of the day, it's
an investment and a case expense.
Speaker:This program will
fundamentally change your life.
Speaker:And so what was that first
trial that you were in?
Speaker:The first trial I was in was with
an incredible attorney, Hazel Chang.
Speaker:She did the trial with me, one of my
good friends, incredible attorney,
Speaker:but it was one of her first trials
too, and we were both nervous.
Speaker:I got the opportunity in my
first ever trial to do a lot.
Speaker:I am blessed that in all my
trials, I have 11 trials now.
Speaker:I essentially co-first chaired all
of them. So in all of my trials,
Speaker:I either do openings or
I do closings, voir dire,
Speaker:directs crosses, all the above, but it
was my first time doing it for real.
Speaker:And so it was scary.
Speaker:One of the things I remember going
back and looking at a transcript,
Speaker:I thought my cross-examination at
the time of the defense doctor,
Speaker:the defense DME doctor, I
thought it was fantastic.
Speaker:And then when I've gone
back and looked at it later,
Speaker:it's not that the points were wrong,
Speaker:it's that it was too long. It's that I
was trying to get into the weeds with him
Speaker:on all of his opinions, as opposed
to just getting in, getting out,
Speaker:having a few to straight points,
talk about his bias and get out.
Speaker:And so that's an example of, at the time
I thought, that was pretty damn good.
Speaker:But then when you go back
and you look, you realize-.
Speaker:Right. And I think the
verdict also reflected.
Speaker:That.
Speaker:It wasn't ... Because you didn't lose it,
Speaker:but you came out as close as you can
to losing without actually losing.
Speaker:We did. We won around $100,000 and
asked for about more than 10 times
Speaker:that, more than a hundred times.
Speaker:Yeah, there you go. So
that's not exactly ideal,
Speaker:but when you're doing it,
you have yourself fully
convinced that you're right,
Speaker:fully believing in it.
So as a younger lawyer,
Speaker:you're going to have to deal with
rejection and loss. And so what was that,
Speaker:being the first time up there, being all
excited, thinking this is your moment,
Speaker:this is your case and just ...
So how do you recover from that?
Speaker:I remember there is nothing
scarier to this day,
Speaker:and doesn't matter how many trials I do,
Speaker:there is absolutely nothing scarier
than when the jury walks back in.
Speaker:And that time when you were waiting
for them to read it and- Verdict watch.
Speaker:The verdict watch. It is so painful.
Speaker:And you can usually tell
from the first few result,
Speaker:the first few answers, whether or not
it's going to be a good verdict or not.
Speaker:And I remember he got to pass
medicals and for past medicals,
Speaker:we asked for hundreds of thousands of
dollars and they awarded us, I think,
Speaker:$30,000.
Speaker:And I remember just everything
just sank. My heart sank.
Speaker:I remember thinking, "Oh my
God, this is so embarrassing.
Speaker:I put so much work into this.
Speaker:How could this have happened?" But what's
interesting is I think that there are
Speaker:some of us, and maybe it's a blessing.
I like to think of it as a blessing,
Speaker:but there's some of us that are just
wired differently that when this happens,
Speaker:I think for a lot of people,
their first reaction is,
Speaker:"I never want to do this again. Oh my
God, I just lost. This is embarrassing.
Speaker:This is terrible." My first
thought was my poor client.
Speaker:I felt bad for my client. I would hope.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:I wanted my client to get way more money
and I just felt terrible for him and
Speaker:that will never go away.
Speaker:And that's something that when you
don't get the results you want in trial,
Speaker:I think about my clients that
thankfully, knock on wood,
Speaker:most of my trials have been very
successful, but the few that haven't,
Speaker:I think about them to this day.
But when I was driving home,
Speaker:my thought was not, "I'm done
with this. " My thought was,
Speaker:I kind of felt like Kobe
after he lost in the finals,
Speaker:he was back in the gym the very next day
and he said that he could not wait to
Speaker:get back out there and get his
opportunity to make it right.
Speaker:And that's what my thought was.
Speaker:I can't wait to get back in the gym
and to redeem myself, to work with you,
Speaker:to work with other people, to get better,
Speaker:to not let this happen again. And that's
when I knew like, "Yep, this is ...
Speaker:" I mean, I've always known
that I wanted to do this,
Speaker:but it was confirmation that if you can
go and you can really take on a verdict
Speaker:that's not what you're looking for and
still be able to hold your head high and
Speaker:say, "I gave it my all and I can't wait
to get out there and do a better job,
Speaker:then this is what you should be.
Speaker:Doing." You eventually leave
Wilshire after what, three years?
Speaker:A little over, closer
to four, yeah, three.
Speaker:And a half years. Four years. And then
you start up with Gene Sullivan. That's.
Speaker:Right, the man.
Speaker:So tell us about why you
made that switch from
Speaker:Wilshire to Gene, and then
about your time there.
Speaker:Well, Gene's an amazing attorney,
Speaker:and I had known about him
prior to joining onto his firm,
Speaker:and I really wanted to be at
a firm with a great litigator
Speaker:who had access to great trials, who also,
Speaker:as amazing as Wilshire
was, it was this big firm,
Speaker:and I was used to having people
there to help me with everything.
Speaker:And Gene also had an amazing
staff that helped me incredibly,
Speaker:but it was much smaller. There was only
five of us that worked at the firm.
Speaker:And so I was excited to go somewhere
where I would be able to have a lot more
Speaker:responsibility and be able to take
over a lot more and have access to some
Speaker:really great cases to go to trial
on. And that's what I got to do.
Speaker:I got to go to trial on nine trials
with Gene in a little over three years,
Speaker:and we had a really good results,
Speaker:and I learned an incredible amount
from him. I was very, very lucky. All.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I want to talk to you about two of
those quote unquote incredible results.
Speaker:Okay. So when everything's
incredible or super,
Speaker:you remind me of my friend Donald.
Speaker:But you had a slip and fall vert. I know
you had a nice slip and fall verdict,
Speaker:and then you had a chainsaw verdict. So
tell us about the slip and fall case.
Speaker:What was that about?
Speaker:Yeah, the slip and fall case. I
was very proud of that result.
Speaker:We won over six and a half
million dollars at verdict.
Speaker:And then by the time that verdict was
paid out, it was closer to $10 million,
Speaker:over $9 million.
Speaker:And that case was about a
slumlord who had this terrible
Speaker:dilapidated building. And
at the top of the building,
Speaker:there was a skylight and skylight
hung over a staircase and the
Speaker:skylight had holes in it.
Speaker:And so water would drip through the
skylight onto the stairs and people
Speaker:would fall and get hurt.
And prior to my client,
Speaker:there were multiple people who fell
and were hurt on these stairs and the
Speaker:building never did anything to fix it.
And so here comes my client, same thing,
Speaker:water on the stairs. She
didn't know to look for it.
Speaker:She's a new tenant in the building.
She fell down the stairs and was extremely
Speaker:injured. And so in addition- What's.
Speaker:Extremely injured?
Speaker:She ended up having to get a
fusion surgery in her neck.
Speaker:She also had to get a surgery
on her shoulder and her knee.
Speaker:She was very seriously injured.
Speaker:But what was interesting about
that case is that in addition to
Speaker:bringing the personal injury case,
Speaker:we also brought a habitability
claim in that case,
Speaker:which is what made it very unique.
Speaker:Join me and my mentor, David Clark,
Speaker:May 27th through June
2nd in Huntington Beach,
Speaker:California for a dark arts bootcamp.
Speaker:This program will change your life.
Speaker:Dave will teach you about
neural linguistic programming,
Speaker:conversational hypnosis, embedding
stories in the unconscious mind.
Speaker:He changed my life and he'll change yours,
Speaker:and I'll coach you on your witness
prep and direct, cross-examination,
Speaker:performance skills for opening statement
and closing argument and voir dire.
Speaker:These days will change your
life. Come for the bootcamp,
Speaker:stay for TLU Beach, the
greatest conference ever.
Speaker:Okay. So the habitability claim,
Speaker:what was the strategic objective of the
Speaker:habitability claim?
Speaker:Well, when we first heard ...
Speaker:So just so everyone understands who may
not have brought a habitability claim
Speaker:before,
Speaker:what a habitability claim means is
whenever you agree to move into a place,
Speaker:there is an understanding that the
place you move into will be habitable
Speaker:somewhere- I think it's a.
Speaker:Covenant. Yeah.
Speaker:It's a covenant. It's a.
Speaker:Covenant between the.
Speaker:Landlord and the 10.
Speaker:Exactly right. And it's an
implied covenant even if
it's not specifically in the
Speaker:language of the contract.
Speaker:And it just means that this place is
somewhere where people should be able to
Speaker:live. It's healthy and it's not
somewhere where that's dangerous. Well,
Speaker:where my client lived was extremely
dangerous. There was mold,
Speaker:there were holes in the
walls, there were rats,
Speaker:there was exposed electrical wiring.
Speaker:It was disgusting and it's not somewhere
that anyone should be living in.
Speaker:And so we brought the claim and we
told the jury this, this is true,
Speaker:because we didn't want them to get away
with any of it. We didn't want them,
Speaker:even if it might not sound
like it's for a lot of money,
Speaker:we wanted to make sure that any amount
of money that our client was taken
Speaker:advantage of, she was
properly compensated for.
Speaker:Why would the $30,000 make that big
of a difference? And here's why.
Speaker:Because I got to show pictures to the
jury of these terrible conditions of the
Speaker:building. And we did all these focus
groups. I always encourage people,
Speaker:any trial, you got to do
plenty of focus groups.
Speaker:And when we talked to the focus group
people and we talked to the real jurors,
Speaker:they said that when they saw these photos
of this terrible dilapidated building,
Speaker:that it made them so mad that it
made them realize that all of the
Speaker:damages needed to be higher.
And that's what they did.
Speaker:So even though on the verdict form,
it may have only said $30,000,
Speaker:the true benefit of bringing this
claim ultimately was seven figures.
Speaker:And it's something I highly encourage
people to look into when they have cases
Speaker:like this.
Speaker:I would imagine so, based upon the
results. How do people get ahold of you?
Speaker:Well, the easiest way is
my cell phone number. It's
Speaker:314-308-8307, available
twenty four seven that way.
Speaker:You can also email me at
ryan@medlerlawfirm.com,
Speaker:or you can reach me on Instagram.
It's @rmedler or our firm,
Speaker:which is @themedler Law Firm.
Speaker:All right. Actually,
Speaker:you've been to probably what,
eight TLU, like the big events,
Speaker:three in Vegas, one in New
York, four in Hunton Beach.
Speaker:So if somebody was on the fence about
coming to TLU, you're like, "God,
Speaker:go to ... " I've been to
other conferences, which
won't mention any names,
Speaker:but how would you say TLU is
different than other conferences?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:what I think is great about TLU is
whatever it is that you want to get better
Speaker:at, TLU has it there for you.
Speaker:We have the top attorneys in
the entire country that come.
Speaker:Obviously, a lot of them are from
California, but not exclusively.
Speaker:There's incredible attorneys from all
across the country that come and they give
Speaker:incredible speeches about their
past wins, which is very beneficial,
Speaker:but they also get into the weeds and
they instruct you about how you can bring
Speaker:value to your cases. One of the things
that you do at TLU is you have workshops,
Speaker:which are not at a lot
of other conferences.
Speaker:And so whatever it is that you want
to work on, you can find the workshop,
Speaker:whether it's trucking cases, whether
it's maybe you have an upcoming trial,
Speaker:whatever it is that you
want to get better at,
Speaker:you have individualized workshops where
you can work with these incredible
Speaker:tightens of the industry.
And obviously,
Speaker:in addition to getting
better at everything,
Speaker:your conferences are also very fun too.
Speaker:You have all sorts of fun events
and parties, and I can't tell you-.
Speaker:The funnest.
Speaker:The funnest, yes. The.
Speaker:Funs and you make so
many new friends at TLU.
Speaker:Can't tell you how many close friends
for the rest of my life I have,
Speaker:and obviously business associates,
Speaker:but I really do feel like
when I go to these events,
Speaker:it's like being around family.
Speaker:That's I feel too. It is
like my family. That is true.
Speaker:All right. And so this chainsaw case,
tell us about this chainsaw case. It's.
Speaker:An interesting case.
Speaker:It was a case that we brought
under Labor Code Section: Speaker:Before you fall asleep, it's actually
more interesting than it sounds.
Speaker:So what that means is in our case,
Speaker:a woman hired someone to
perform a job that required a
Speaker:license under the law. In this case,
Speaker:it was cutting down a tree
that was over 15 feet tall.
Speaker:Look, it's the birthday
girl sliding right by then.
Speaker:Happy birthday, Noelle. Happy birthday.
Speaker:All right. So good. Said to
acknowledge the birthday house.
Speaker:Flying around here at
the beach house. The.
Speaker:Mock trial queen.
Speaker:Casey is wondering that's right.
He was like a mock trial king.
Speaker:I was like.
Speaker:Oh. So a king can recognize a queen.
There you go. There it is. There we go.
Speaker:All right. Back to it. Now, this chainsaw.
Speaker:Chainsaw.
Speaker:Chainsaw. She hired him to cut down
a tree that was over 15 feet tall,
Speaker:he being my client. But the law
said that in order to do that,
Speaker:he should have had a license and he
didn't have a license and she didn't offer
Speaker:him workers' compensation insurance.
Speaker:And the reason that's important is if
you're going to be doing a dangerous job,
Speaker:usually you need to be offered insurance
so that if anything wrong happens,
Speaker:you can be compensated. But in this case,
Speaker:she didn't offer him workers'
compensation insurance.
Speaker:It was a dangerous job and
he was seriously injured.
Speaker:So it was an interesting case
because it was bifurcated.
Speaker:We were only dealing with the issue
of liability, not with damages yet.
Speaker:And so I had never put on a case like
this where we had to explain a statute to
Speaker:the jury, be very clear,
Speaker:not allow them to fall asleep because
they're hearing it's statutory
Speaker:interpretation,
Speaker:but we really had to work them through
what are each of the elements we need to
Speaker:prove and what is the evidence we
have to prove it. And thankfully,
Speaker:we were very successful.
Speaker:TLU Hunting Beach is going to be the
greatest trial lawyers event in history.
Speaker:It all starts off on Tuesday,
Speaker:June 2nd with a dinner
hosted by Finch at the Lorea.
Speaker:We're buying it out and the pool area
around it for our 300 of our closest
Speaker:friends. Wednesday, we're
just doing workshops.
Speaker:We got Ben Ravinovitz and Mike Kelly
doing expert cross. We got Philip Miller,
Speaker:Ed Serenboli teaching advanced deposition,
Speaker:and we got six more
workshops besides that.
Speaker:But if you're not interested in
training that day, that afternoon,
Speaker:you can go out with Ted B.
Speaker:Wacker and go for the first
annual TLU golf tournament or
Speaker:racing go- karts with Kurt
Zaner or playing pickleball
with Supio. That evening,
Speaker:we got the opening party. We got the
lobby lounge at night with ping pong,
Speaker:foosball, DJ and open bar. And
then Thursday, Friday and Saturday,
Speaker:we got five lecture tracks,
eight workshop tracks,
Speaker:full breakfast for everybody every
morning on the ocean lawn for 700
Speaker:people.
Great lunches every day.
Speaker:This is our fifth year at the
Puicea with the food's amazing.
Speaker:Ask anybody who's got the best food
on the conference tour. It's TLU.
Speaker:Then Thursday night,
Speaker:we're buying out the LaRae and the tree
house above it and doing a party hosted
Speaker:by Supio that's going to be at
80s tracksuit party. Friday night,
Speaker:we're having the first ever satch
Oliver Wild West party Satch is
Speaker:bringing 500 pounds of Angus beef.
We're going to be grilling out.
Speaker:We're going to have a mechanical
bowl. It's going to be a great time.
Speaker:Lots of new friends being
made. And finally on Saturday,
Speaker:we're closing out the socializing
with the APRE ski adult swim pool
Speaker:party. That's on Saturday night.
Finally, but that's edit though.
Speaker:Sunday morning,
Speaker:we're starting with connections and
a great meal and we're ending it.
Speaker:Sunday morning,
Speaker:we're having brunch with Scott Frost from
the Frost Law Group hosting our brunch
Speaker:on Sunday morning. So we're beginning
with an ending with community and great
Speaker:learning. So TLU Hunton Beach,
June 2nd through 7th. Be there.
Speaker:We'll see you.
Speaker:So this case was bifurcated
and you got liability,
Speaker:right? So after that,
Speaker:my understanding is that they settled to
the policy limits. Is that right? They.
Speaker:Settled it for the 1.5 million
policy limit right after that.
Speaker:So was very lucky. Very happy.
Speaker:I don't luck is the right word, but
fortunate to won the trial though.
Speaker:So what were your big lessons, big
takeaways from the chainsaw case?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:one big takeaway that I had from the
chainsaw case was when I was doing
Speaker:my cross-examination
of their main witness,
Speaker:who in this case was the usual
gardener for the property.
Speaker:And he tried to take the stand
and essentially perjure himself.
Speaker:He tried to make up all these lies and
tried to say that everything that the
Speaker:homeowner said was accurate and nothing
that my client said was accurate. Well,
Speaker:instead of attacking him and attacking the
Speaker:defendant, excuse me, attacking
this gardener who ultimately,
Speaker:he doesn't have much stake
in this matter, right?
Speaker:He's not the person who did something
wrong. He's just been dragged into this.
Speaker:So I started off my
cross-examination and I said, "Sir,
Speaker:are you aware that yesterday in
court the defendant testified
Speaker:X?" In this case it was,
Speaker:she testified that you never
cut down the tree in question.
Speaker:And then I said, "But
that's not true, right,
Speaker:sir? You have cut that tree down
before." And he said, "Yeah,
Speaker:that's not true." And then I went through
a series of about six more lies that
Speaker:the defendant, the defense attorney,
and the defense expert had given.
Speaker:And so by the end,
Speaker:I'm only six questions
into my cross-examination.
Speaker:I've already gotten their star witness
to say that their side was lying or
Speaker:misrepresenting the
truth six different ways.
Speaker:And so then when we got to
the rest of his testimony,
Speaker:they already were thinking maybe
we shouldn't be trusting them.
Speaker:And so that was one
thing that I learned was
Speaker:splitting witnesses up as
one big lesson in that trial.
Speaker:And then juxtaposing them.
Speaker:Exactly right. And also
using video as well.
Speaker:Obviously you got to use whatever
evidence you have at your disposal.
Speaker:And so in this case, we actually
had, because the trial was on CVN,
Speaker:this trial,
Speaker:I actually have two trials that are
on CVN that people can go and watch,
Speaker:but we actually had video clips that
we were able to play from the trial.
Speaker:So I played the video trip
of the trial and I said,
Speaker:"This is what she said." And I said, "But
that's not true, is it? " And he said,
Speaker:"No, that's not true."
And it was very powerful.
Speaker:And since you've been at
my apartment during COVID,
Speaker:you've been busy lately, so you haven't
been to my TLU skills bootcamps,
Speaker:which is ... We're working
on that still though.
Speaker:It's a problem when people are too smart.
Speaker:I think they know more than they
actually do about some topics,
Speaker:but that's his conversation for that.
I didn't know he was a scholarship guy,
Speaker:second in his class. But
since we're here, Ryan,
Speaker:and I'm going to teach you and everybody
who's going to be watching and listen
Speaker:to this, this will be the first
time ever that I've done my cross
Speaker:on video during a podcast.
How does that make you feel?
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Pretty excited, huh? Very excited.
Because I've given this presentation.
Speaker:We're going to give it in Vegas. I
mean, not Vegas, Huntington Beach.
Speaker:We don't do Vegas anymore,
Speaker:but I'm also going down to Dallas
in April for this big Texas rumble.
Speaker:So I'm pretty stoked about that. And
Speaker:I'm doing this next week for the ... Yeah,
Speaker:not next week,
Speaker:the following week for the CASD on the
25th. Consumers attorneys in San Diego.
Speaker:So Sarah's bringing me to teach
this cross. So here it is, Ryan.
Speaker:So this out of all the things I've
ever created for trial lawyers,
Speaker:I believe is the biggest ... Between this,
Speaker:maybe the witness prep, but this one,
Speaker:because people take a lot of
depositions and that's how they can ...
Speaker:And that's where they can
practice their skills.
Speaker:But here's the cross because
people study cross substantively,
Speaker:but nobody ever studies cross
from a performance standpoint.
Speaker:So here are the rules
of cross. Number one,
Speaker:leading questions only
seems obviously. Doctor,
Speaker:you're a board certified medical expert.
Speaker:So one new fact per question,
become board certified.
Speaker:This requires advanced education.
Speaker:So we established the first
fact, then we had the next fact,
Speaker:which is also called
looping. This education,
Speaker:it takes place both during
medical school and after you get
Speaker:out. So again, and also
cross-examining the present tense.
Speaker:It takes place during, it took
place while you were in there,
Speaker:but it takes place.
Speaker:So that way it allows the witness to
visualize what you're talking about.
Speaker:You have to visualize it
in order to communicate it
because if you can't see it,
Speaker:they can't see it. If you
can't transport yourself,
Speaker:you can't transport a witness
or an audience. And so,
Speaker:because I've barely ever seen any
lawyer, I don't care what level they are.
Speaker:The biggest names we know,
Speaker:I never see anybody cross-examine
in the present tense,
Speaker:but I think it makes a real game changer,
especially when you're creating space.
Speaker:Trucker Tom, I want to talk to you about
when you're driving south on US 411,
Speaker:so that's creating space and cross,
which is a whole nother skill.
Speaker:Then we got to draft all
the taglines like right,
Speaker:isn't it true, correct,
Speaker:true? But if you need to use a tagline
because of the context of the statement,
Speaker:to have a pause between the
statement and the tagline,
Speaker:just so it just becomes uncomfortable.
Speaker:But while you are in medical
school, you do take classes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:No, you were supposed to make it
uncomfortable. See, it got uncomfortable.
Speaker:Couldn't have that. I said,
true, just as nice as it can be.
Speaker:And I think true should be the only
tagline because the other sounds correct,
Speaker:right? They're like confidence, which is
true. Plus we're looking for the truth.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:And just as kindness can true to
drop all the filler words like and
Speaker:so, okay, et cetera.
Speaker:You can see very experienced lawyers
doing this and lawyers will do it their
Speaker:whole careers. Didn't realize
they're doing it. It's so.
Speaker:Frustrating to listen to.
Speaker:Okay. No, it's annoying. Yeah.
And it's just like unpolished.
Speaker:So we drop all those filler words.
They effectively use a flip chart.
Speaker:What does that mean? That
means to write legibly.
Speaker:How often do you use flip
charts in your cross?
Speaker:A lot. All.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But that's a lesson I learned from you.
Speaker:All right. Because if
you don't write legibly,
Speaker:you won't have the confidence to do it.
Speaker:Then just put one topic
per page and then-.
Speaker:Which is something interesting
that you taught me,
Speaker:which is even though you are writing live,
you need to prepare it ahead of time.
Speaker:And so you need to have a lot
of it pre-written ahead of time.
Speaker:And obviously you're going to be filling
stuff in. But when I first thought it,
Speaker:I thought every page would be
blank, but you explained that no,
Speaker:you're going to have it separated out
and each page is a different part of your
Speaker:cross-examination, but you've
prepared it ahead of time.
Speaker:Right. So for this cross, for the expert,
Speaker:so the first page would be blank. The
second page has proper written across.
Speaker:The third page has biased. So it
also communicates to the witness,
Speaker:the court and the jury that this is
prepared. This is not extemporaneous.
Speaker:This is not off the cuff.
This is a planned take down.
Speaker:So let's be mindful of that. On top of,
Speaker:additionally,
Speaker:there are only two emotional states
in cross that dominate 99% of it,
Speaker:and that is inquisitive or curiosity
when you're laying foundations
Speaker:and disappointment when you're
showing bias or impeaching.
Speaker:It's like, isn't it sad that you're a
doctor? It's a good oath to help people,
Speaker:that you're going to hurt
people. You must feel terrible.
Speaker:I feel sad for you that
you're such a sell.
Speaker:And that lesson about
the disappointment is
Speaker:also something you've taught me
that throughout the entire trial,
Speaker:that's kind of your emotion
you want to be going with,
Speaker:as opposed to being angry,
as opposed to being in ...
Speaker:You want to be in control,
and that's what it is.
Speaker:You're really just disappointed.
Speaker:The way you described it as a
parent is just disappointed. Really,
Speaker:I thought you would've done better,
Speaker:which honestly affects someone way
more when they're disappointed,
Speaker:as opposed to if somebody
is just mad. It's no.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:Makes sense.
Speaker:A couple more is pacing because
when most people do cross,
Speaker:it's more of a pressure situation and
it's confrontational in their mind and
Speaker:they just become aggressive.
And when we do that,
Speaker:our heart beats faster and
our breathing becomes off
Speaker:and we speed up because we
stop breathing properly.
Speaker:And so right along with pacing and
pausing, because if you listen ...
Speaker:Oh, because the next statement is,
"But while you are in medical school,
Speaker:you do take classes." Yes.
Speaker:One of those classes that you
take is on how to conduct a proper
Speaker:medical evaluation, but
every chunk is intentional.
Speaker:One of those classes,
inhale that you take,
Speaker:inhale is on how to conduct inhale,
Speaker:a proper medical evaluation at the
end, proper medical evaluation.
Speaker:So my fingertips open towards you
and my eyebrows raised. And because
Speaker:my mentor, Dave Clark, by the way,
Speaker:he's teaching a dark arts class May 27th
through June 2nd. We're going to do the
Speaker:beginning of the dark arts class.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:Right here.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Wednesday through Sunday is going
to be here at the beach house.
Speaker:And then we're going to do the
last two days at Huntington Beach.
Speaker:So that way it's a little hybrid.
People get to hang out in Hermosa.
Speaker:Then they get to Huntington.
Speaker:I want people to have the full beach
experience because my buddy Satch Oliver
Speaker:explained one time because
he's got this new ranch.
Speaker:I went down there to take a look
at the thing. Awesome. It's huge.
Speaker:He's got a train trip goes
through it. He's got caves on it.
Speaker:A river runs through it.
Speaker:He's got lots of buildings going up to
have people come because he's going to do
Speaker:his depositions or trial there and have
other events there. But I was like,
Speaker:I kind of like to do my program.
He goes, Dan, it's not your brand.
Speaker:It's like your brand is Vegas or beach.
When he said that, I was like,
Speaker:it's not Vegas. I'm a beach guy. There.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:That's when I said, I got
to get back to the beach.
Speaker:Let's do it.
Speaker:I'm a beach guy. Why am I living in Vegas?
I'm a beach guy. So right from there,
Speaker:I said I had to go find a house on
the beach. So that changed a lot.
Speaker:But cross-examination though. So those
are really the also bringing the jury in.
Speaker:You have something that
you want to stand out,
Speaker:then you turn to the jury and
it's like, bring them in. And so
Speaker:those are really the core skills.
So this is what it looks like.
Speaker:So we teach it one chunk at a time,
so that way when we're training it,
Speaker:people practice on
their own ahead of time.
Speaker:I can go over and explain all this stuff
I'm about to explain to you right now
Speaker:or just subduring. But also they have
to videotape themselves doing it,
Speaker:which of course is difficult.
Speaker:But most people are really
rough on those first videos,
Speaker:but it's the beginning of carbon these
new neural pathways. It's like a baby
Speaker:learning to walk. There's a lot of
falling, but without the falling,
Speaker:the baby doesn't learn to walk.
It's just part of the process.
Speaker:And so the challenge is mastering these
skills that sound like Dave Clark is
Speaker:about making the unconscious
conscious. So the one thing I say is,
Speaker:as soon as I say doctor, my face
goes from neutral to inquisitive.
Speaker:I'm so interested because
remember the jury's watching this.
Speaker:And so if I'm interested,
Speaker:they're going to be interested because
they have these things called mirror
Speaker:neurons in their faces. And so when I
go, "Huh?" Their faces do the same thing.
Speaker:So we unconsciously become
more interested. So this
is the cross. You ready?
Speaker:It's going to change so much for you,
Ryan. You're going to be so excited off.
Speaker:Doctor, you're a board
certified medical expert.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Oh, don't answer every time though.
Just so you know, one out of four,
Speaker:one out of five times, don't answer. So
that way we can demonstrate that long,
Speaker:uncomfortable silence.
Speaker:Got it.
Speaker:And also in training, it
teaches this person to listen.
Speaker:Otherwise,
Speaker:you stop listening because you got your
own shit and that happens in trial too,
Speaker:because they stop listening.
Okay. Become board certified.
Speaker:This requires advanced education.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:This education, it takes place
both during medical school
Speaker:and after you get out.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But while you are in medical
school, you do take classes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:One of the classes that you take
is on how to conduct a proper
Speaker:medical evaluation. True.
Speaker:True. So that's segment
one. And so that lays down,
Speaker:it's like a foundation.
Speaker:So it starts with the basic rules there.
Speaker:And then of course we have
our flip chart right here. Oh,
Speaker:and then also notice that my hand
comes up with the first word. Doc,
Speaker:it moves only when I talk. And
when I pause the inhale, it stops.
Speaker:And at the end, it always pops
out and my eyebrows raised.
Speaker:So this takes a little bit of practice
to be able to coordinate all that stuff.
Speaker:When people start doing it, they look
really weird. And some people are like,
Speaker:"Oh, this feels so weird."
I'm like, "No shit.
Speaker:Something you're doing for the very
first time, it feels weird. Oh,
Speaker:I'm so sorry. Everything's not so
easy for you. " Practice, right?
Speaker:People don't want to practice. So anyways,
that's segment one. Here's segue two.
Speaker:Doctor,
Speaker:you're trained that a
proper medical evaluation,
Speaker:it must be impartial.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So now I got my blank sheet here. So I
flip it over. So makes a lot of noise.
Speaker:And then it says proper. So it tells
everybody this shit ain't extemporaneous.
Speaker:I thought this through.
Speaker:And I write number one and
I write impartial in capital
letters and I space it
Speaker:so it takes the entire piece of the
page and it's level because I practice.
Speaker:Then I read number two underneath it,
Speaker:causing curiosity for the jury like
what's coming next by space it so that I
Speaker:have two and three. So that way
everything's separated one topic per page.
Speaker:Doctor, by impartial,
Speaker:what we mean is that you're not
an advocate for either side.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:I say what we mean,
Speaker:what you and I mean in the context
of a jury trial of an expert witness
Speaker:and a trial lawyer. And remember,
you get to define these things.
Speaker:As long as they're logical, who can
argue with that, right? So doctor,
Speaker:you're trained that a proper
medical evaluation must not only be
Speaker:impartial. They look at,
that's called glance control,
Speaker:but it must also be objective.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So I write down number two, objective,
and I put number three. And remember,
Speaker:when we write on this flip chart, we're
standing in front of it basically,
Speaker:so the jury can't see it.
Speaker:And so they just stare at it
wondering what we're writing.
Speaker:And so what it does is it really
induces great focus on their part and
Speaker:curiosity. And then when you step
back and it says objective, like, "Oh,
Speaker:I thought it was going to say objective.
Speaker:I'm right." So we write objective
and then put number three.
Speaker:And of course we use parallel structure,
so we're going to define objective.
Speaker:By objective,
Speaker:what we mean is that you
don't cherry pick the evidence
Speaker:to support a desired opinion.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:And so we also know the mind
can't process a negative, right?
Speaker:So I say you're not an advocate. They
have to picture him being an advocate.
Speaker:So you don't cherry pick the
evidence. In order to understand it,
Speaker:they have to picture them cherry
picking evidence. If I say,
Speaker:"Don't think of a purple elephant."
Whatever you don't think of a purple
Speaker:elephant with a little pink tutu on.
Speaker:You can't understand the question
without thinking about it, right?
Speaker:That's the power of rhetoric
and a negative. And then
Speaker:doctor,
Speaker:you're trained that a proper
medical evaluation must not only be
Speaker:impartial and objective, but
it must also be complete.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So I write down complete. By complete,
Speaker:what we mean is that you
consider all relevant
Speaker:information.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We're starting off the summer right,
May 8th and 9th in Hermosa Beach,
Speaker:California at the TLU Beach House.
Speaker:We're doing a two-day witness prep
and direct examination workshop.
Speaker:You will learn how to prepare your
clients so they just don't remember their
Speaker:stories, but they relive them.
Speaker:And then we transition that to direct
examination so the jury just doesn't hear
Speaker:the story, but they relive them, they
experience them, they witness them.
Speaker:We'll see you there.
Speaker:So in your entire career,
how many defense experts,
Speaker:based upon these definitions, would
you ever say were impartial, objective,
Speaker:and complete? None. Zero, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So they're lying right through their
teeth right at the beginning. But
Speaker:the great thing is that they know it,
Speaker:but that's where the cortisol starts
to rise. So this is segment three.
Speaker:Doctor, the opposite of a
proper medical evaluation,
Speaker:one that's impartial,
objective, and complete. Well,
Speaker:that would be a biased medical evaluation.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:So I flipped a page over
and it says biased. Doctor,
Speaker:you're trained and you know
that there are certain risks
Speaker:associated with a paid
expert's choice to conduct
Speaker:a biased medical evaluation. True.
Speaker:One of those risks is that the jury
Speaker:could be misled
Speaker:about the patient's condition.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Oh, I made a mistake.
Speaker:One of those risks is that the jury
could be misinformed about the patient's
Speaker:condition.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So I write number one, misinformed.
Speaker:And I put number two out
of curiosity. Doctor,
Speaker:you're trained and you know.
Speaker:So I say you're trained and you
know that's an example of stepping.
Speaker:So if you're trained and you know
this, well, if you don't do it,
Speaker:it's because you chose not to. You
can't say, "I just made a mistake.".
Speaker:Sure. And.
Speaker:Part of this cross builds the expert
because it came from the cross of a
Speaker:cop about the investment because
people give doctors and cops so much
Speaker:credibility because they think
other persons, first of all,
Speaker:they keep us safe and they
got no skin in the game.
Speaker:So in order to impeach them well, we
have to raise a real high pedestal.
Speaker:So doctor,
Speaker:you're trained and you know that
if a paid expert chooses to conduct
Speaker:a biased medical evaluation,
Speaker:not only could the jury be misinformed
about the patient's condition,
Speaker:but they could also be misled
as to the extent of the
Speaker:patient's injuries.
Speaker:Sure, that could happen.
Speaker:So under two, misled,
and then number three.
Speaker:So misled is being worse than misinformed.
Speaker:If you believe somebody's
previously misinformed,
Speaker:you more likely believe they
would mislead you, right? Doctor,
Speaker:you're trained and you know
that if a paid expert chooses,
Speaker:I'll just call you a paid expert
for the third time in a row,
Speaker:to conduct a biased medical evaluation,
Speaker:not only could our jury be misinformed
about the patient's condition
Speaker:and misled at the extent of the patient's
injuries, but perhaps worst of all,
Speaker:they could be deceived into
undervaluing the human harms
Speaker:and suffering that were caused.
Speaker:Yes. So.
Speaker:That's the only time I really changed
my emotional state like, "This is bad.
Speaker:It's real bad. I mean, this is
really bad." So that's segment three.
Speaker:So your segment four. Doctor, let me
ask you this question. On December 14th,
Speaker:2022, you had a choice
to make. So tell us all,
Speaker:what did you choose to do?
Speaker:I did a thorough examination.
Speaker:So you did a ... But in
training, just because ...
Speaker:So the doctor says,
Speaker:"I don't know what you mean." Because
it's like a purposely ambiguous question
Speaker:that any expert that's getting paid what
these guys charge is going to be like,
Speaker:"I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not going to guess." So he says,
Speaker:"What do you mean? Then you can practice
spontaneous looping." What I mean is,
Speaker:did you choose to do a
proper medical evaluation,
Speaker:then you could flip the page
back. So it draws attention,
Speaker:one that was impartial, objective, and
complete, like you were trained to do,
Speaker:or did you choose to
violate your training?
Speaker:Conduct a biased evaluation,
knowing that I flipped the page,
Speaker:knowing all the risks.
Speaker:I would still say that
I did a thorough job.
Speaker:So- For.
Speaker:Proper examination.
Speaker:Proper? Proper.
Speaker:So what you're telling this jury under
oath is that the investigation you did
Speaker:for this case was ... I
flipped the page back over,
Speaker:so it makes the noise again. Impartial,
objective, and complete. Yes.
Speaker:Just like you were trained to do.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So that when I say proper, like, boy,
Speaker:I just gave you your last out and you're
still going to continue with this lie,
Speaker:proper disbelief. So that's the cross.
Speaker:I like it.
Speaker:Because it teaches all the skills, but
that's why it's a lot of repetition.
Speaker:So when we're training it, we
just do train one chunk at a time
Speaker:Because that cross could be
changed or adjusted to any cross.
Speaker:So say it was a biomechanics expert. Well,
Speaker:impartial objective and complete
would all be the same, right?
Speaker:But more of the risk that the jury
could be misinformed about the forces
Speaker:involved.
Speaker:They can be misled about the potential
for injury and they could be deceived and
Speaker:undervalued the human harms and suffering
that were caused. Yep. So you see,
Speaker:we call that a foundational
cross. And a lot of people,
Speaker:they want to go right into
the impeachments without
laying foundations that make
Speaker:the impeachments that much
more powerful. Totally.
Speaker:Agree.
Speaker:So there was your cross there. It
was yours. And all the people who ...
Speaker:When somebody says ... I listen to
your podcast all the time. I'm like,
Speaker:thank you so much. I really
appreciate that. There it is.
Speaker:It takes a fair amount of work
to do these things and stuff.
Speaker:Nobody's getting a benefit from it.
So the more people getting a benefit,
Speaker:the happier I feel.
Speaker:So I hope people get a benefit from that
chunk across the end of trial lessons.
Speaker:So moving forward, now
Speaker:you're on your own with your
family, the Medler Firm.
Speaker:That's right. Meder Law.
Speaker:Firm. The Medler Law Firm. So how
... It's only been a few months.
Speaker:So what are the first few months
been like working with mom and dad?
Speaker:That'd be great. Living the dream.
Speaker:I moved down to Newport and
that's where our new office is.
Speaker:And I get to go into work every day
and work with the best lawyers I know.
Speaker:That's so cute that you think your mom
and dad are the best lawyers you know.
Speaker:You should believe the best thing to do.
I do. I know. I legitimately do that.
Speaker:Yeah, I believe your wife,
Speaker:your girlfriend's the most
beautiful person in the
whole world and your children
Speaker:are the smartest best things ever. That's.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That is so cute, Ryan.
Speaker:I would not have joined up
with them if I didn't think.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:And we're already killing it.
Speaker:We've already settled millions of dollars
in our first few months doing this.
Speaker:And we have already been
signing up lots of great cases.
Speaker:I'm looking forward to
signing up many more. I.
Speaker:Bet you.
Speaker:Are going forward.
Speaker:Kind of need those.
Speaker:Don't you? Yeah, you kind.
Speaker:Do. Kind of need cases.
Speaker:You can be a.
Speaker:Grace Traveler. I used to be a
house painter and I'd be like,
Speaker:I could be the greatest
house prayer in the world.
Speaker:But if I don't have a
contract, we're shit.
Speaker:There it is.
Speaker:So you don't have a case to
try? I mean, we're shit, buddy.
Speaker:That's it. And that's a good
point about cases to try.
Speaker:We're taking on all types of referrals,
Speaker:but what's exciting that
I'm really focusing on are
cases that are in litigation
Speaker:and cases with upcoming trials.
Speaker:So I've been brought in on cases that
have a trial in less than a week.
Speaker:I've been brought in on
cases where there's a trial
in a month and we have to do
Speaker:expert depositions. And so there's no
such thing as calling me in too late.
Speaker:I'm always willing to jump
in on cases. And yeah,
Speaker:so far it's been going fantastic.
Speaker:That's great. And
Speaker:now that you've got your own firm
there and you've got some street chops,
Speaker:you get to not only attend Trial Region
University this year and host a track
Speaker:because people don't even know.
Speaker:We're talking about your
dancing skills in a minute,
Speaker:but that just gives you a
lot of presence on the stage.
Speaker:So we're always honored
that people are like,
Speaker:"How much do you pay Medley
to host that? " I'm like,
Speaker:"He doesn't even charge me. No
fucking way." I'm like, "Yeah. Wow,
Speaker:what a nice guy because he's like a
professional host. I know. " Of course.
Speaker:I'm so thrilled, so thrilled.
Speaker:So you're going to be teaching
at TAU Beach this year.
Speaker:And so you have one lecture
on our case analysis track.
Speaker:What's that lecture going to be about?
Speaker:It's about how to properly prepare for
trial. So it's going to be about ... Oh,
Speaker:I'm sorry, on the case analysis.
On the case analysis route,
Speaker:I'm going to be talking about
one of my big results. That's.
Speaker:What case analysis.
Speaker:About. I apologize.
Speaker:Your biggest result, right?
Speaker:I'm doing-.
Speaker:No, the chainsaw case.
Speaker:The chainsaw case. So
not my biggest result,
Speaker:but a result that because
it was done on CBN,
Speaker:I'm going to have a lot of video that
I'm going to be able to show people.
Speaker:And I do think there were a lot of
good lessons from that trial. So yeah,
Speaker:we're going to be teaching that
case, which actually- Ryan and I are.
Speaker:Going to be reading that tape so he can
point out to everybody where he's going
Speaker:to perform better.
Speaker:Yes. Can't wait.
Speaker:Yeah, I know. He loves
coaching. A lot of being told.
Speaker:But I'm also going to be doing a
workshop. Well, and the workshop- What's.
Speaker:The workshop about?
Speaker:That's about how to properly prepare
for trial. So for people- What do you.
Speaker:Know about proper
preparing for trial? Well.
Speaker:What's exciting is that in addition to
doing this trial work and working at the
Speaker:Mether Law Firm,
Speaker:another thing that I've been doing and
I'm going to be continuing doing going
Speaker:forward is consulting work where I come
into firms and I teach them everybody.
Speaker:We're talking case managers,
paralegals, attorneys, everybody.
Speaker:How do you prepare for trial?
Speaker:And so what the program at TLU is
going to be is another version of that.
Speaker:We're going to be teaching people what
are the motions in limine you should be
Speaker:filing? How do you make a PowerPoint?
How do you edit video clips?
Speaker:What are the sorts of
depositions you should be taking?
Speaker:How should you be lining up all your
testimony, your stories, everything?
Speaker:It's going to be a crash course
and how do we get ready for trial?
Speaker:And I think it's going to be
very beneficial for anybody
who has a trial coming
Speaker:up who might not have any experience.
Look, there's
Speaker:lots of trial and lawyers out there who
just haven't had that experience yet.
Speaker:And so I think that this will be getting
into the weeds and really getting a lot
Speaker:of people ready to go for that first shot.
Speaker:I'm Orlando De Castroverde.
Speaker:I've been a subscriber to TLU
On Demand ever since the start.
Speaker:Anytime I listen to a particular episode
that's relevant to a case that I'm
Speaker:working on right away, I'm sharing
it with my team saying, "Hey,
Speaker:you got to listen to this.
Speaker:" If you want to be the best
trial lawyer that you can be,
Speaker:sign up for TLU on demand today.
Speaker:That's great. And for
everybody who doesn't know,
Speaker:when we do workshops and
people like Ryan B. Workshops,
Speaker:every instructor that
teaches a workshop at TLU,
Speaker:it's required to have at least two Zoom
meetups with their class ahead of time
Speaker:so they can go over what they're going
to be teaching, lay a little foundation,
Speaker:a little roadmap,
Speaker:but also so everybody can get to
meet each other because if you go to
Speaker:conferences where I didn't know a lot of
people and I don't have nearly as much
Speaker:fun as I go to a conference when I
feel like I know everybody like at TLU,
Speaker:that's why I try to call everybody so I
can chat with them on the phone a little
Speaker:bit.
Speaker:It's a little easier to do right now
than in April and May when it's like
Speaker:a lot more registration. If people are
like, "I'm getting around to it. ".
Speaker:I'm excited. So whoever's
signing up for my workshop,
Speaker:you can send me your case file
ahead of time. I'll go through it.
Speaker:So by the time we get there and we're
live, all of us can be working together.
Speaker:And obviously I'm going to be leading
the session, but we're all in together.
Speaker:I learned just as much from you
all as I will take back from it.
Speaker:And so it's going to be great. We're
going to be very much working together,
Speaker:like you said, as friends and-.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And our friends at Finch are
hosting a dinner for 300 of
Speaker:my closest friends out in the Lorae
restaurant, which is the restaurant,
Speaker:the hotel, and the pool
area. And earlier that day,
Speaker:Ed Sarinbully's got a surf camp and
Supiel's taking people out to play
Speaker:pickleball.
Speaker:Oh, let's.
Speaker:Go. I know. On Wednesday,
we got Zaner doing,
Speaker:maybe besides all the five lecture
tracks and the seven workshop tracks,
Speaker:got Zeiner on Wednesday
with his go- kart race.
Speaker:It took like 30 people to do that
last year. They had a great time.
Speaker:We have a golf outing this year.
Speaker:Of course we do.
Speaker:Ted Wacker is best hosting the golf.
He is such a great guy. Golf outing,
Speaker:then we got pickleball again on
Wednesday and then opening party
Speaker:Wednesday night. So we've got that.
Speaker:And then And what else has been different
this year is going to be using the
Speaker:restaurants of the hotel, like
on Thursday night's party,
Speaker:both the main restaurant
and the tree house upstairs.
Speaker:We got them both bought out.
Speaker:Can't beat it.
Speaker:So we got plenty of room for
our friends to indoor outdoors,
Speaker:so it won't get as cold. This got kind
of cool. Although it's unseasonably hot,
Speaker:apparently a heat wave's
coming to Southern California.
So we appreciate that.
Speaker:We appreciate that. So Ryan, on top
of being an upcoming trial lawyer,
Speaker:you're also recognized for your dancing
skills. Tell us how did that come about?
Speaker:They're all dying to know.
Speaker:Well, it goes back to my
club days, believe it or not.
Speaker:When I started working at the nightclub,
Speaker:I thought that I was quite a good dancer,
Speaker:but my dance moves were kind of
limited to the, what do they call that?
Speaker:The fist bump in there. It was not-.
Speaker:And the sprinkler.
Speaker:Yeah, the sprinkler, exactly.
Had a coworker and she said,
Speaker:"Dancing's in your hips.
Speaker:It's all in your hips." And she kind
of taught me some of my moves. But yes,
Speaker:I like dancing and I like
having fun. And so as you know,
Speaker:just like you have fun parties,
Speaker:I've had several fun parties the past
few years to get those dance moves out.
Speaker:But what's always-.
Speaker:You have parties just
so you can dance, Ryan.
Speaker:I have conferences so I can speak
at it. Yes. People are like,
Speaker:"It's okay." I'm with the Trial
Lawyers College for 12 years and people
Speaker:are like, "You're not instructed
that? " I'm like, "Nope.
Speaker:I'm just like the world's
greatest students." There it is.
Speaker:But then I had to quit and start my
own thing so I could be the instructor.
Speaker:That's it. Well, yes,
Speaker:I do my conferences or I do my
parties secretly so that I can dance.
Speaker:But also I always want to make sure
that whenever I do something that we're
Speaker:raising money for an important cause.
So when I had my New Year's party,
Speaker:we raised a lot of money
for the CAOC cause.
Speaker:The Uber initiative last year
when I had my Super Bowl party,
Speaker:we raised a lot of money for the fires
and for all the ongoing trauma that
Speaker:was going on with everyone for
that situation. And so yeah,
Speaker:I try and put on fun events,
Speaker:but we always make sure that we're
doing it with a bigger purpose in mind.
Speaker:Right. It's because of this Uber
initiative. It's a real cataclysmic event.
Speaker:It is. This is
Speaker:a earth shattering event because in case
anybody doesn't know what your friends
Speaker:at Uber, we recommend you delete the app.
Speaker:It's trying to limit recoveries
in California so that the "victim"
Speaker:victim bill of rights gets 75%,
at least 25% for the doctors,
Speaker:the case expenses and the lawyers,
Speaker:which means that basically anything
less than a million dollars wouldn't be
Speaker:tenable,
Speaker:but that might not even be tenable.
And I know that you raised a significant
Speaker:amount of money. I think it was what,
$80,000 from your party for that.
Speaker:And we just did an event that Nick
Raleigh's place out in Big Sky and we
Speaker:raised $54,000 from that
for the Uber initiative.
Speaker:And a lot of people have chipped in
a lot of money and it's really like a
Speaker:national cause. And so
Speaker:for my bootcamps I'm doing
this year, a lot of them,
Speaker:I'm giving the tuition to the
Uber defense and hopefully raising
Speaker:a couple hundred thousand for years up
and we beat this thing and we continue to
Speaker:have it because California looked very
different. If we got no more cases,
Speaker:that'd be devastating for us all.
Speaker:It will,
Speaker:but I'm confident that we're going to
bond together and we're going to win this.
Speaker:All right. Sounds great. Ryan,
Speaker:I'm so glad that you could be the
first guest at the new TLU Beach
Speaker:House.
Speaker:Thank you. It's been an
honor. Thank you, Dan.
Speaker:All right, Ryan.
Speaker:Ready to train with the Titans and
set records with your verdicts?
Speaker:Register for our live conferences and
bootcamps at triallawyersuniversity.com.
Speaker:Start getting your reps in before the
big event by going to tluondemand.com
Speaker:to gain instant access to
live lectures, case analysis,
Speaker:and skills training videos from the trial
lawyer champions you love and respect,
Speaker:as well as pleadings,
transcripts, PowerPoints,
Speaker:and notes for a roadmap to victory.
Speaker:Join the group that continues
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