Orlando De Castroverde - From Las Vegas Billboard Lawyer to Trial Lawyer: My 8-Year Journey with TLU

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The most dangerous place you can be as a trial lawyer is to think you've got it figured out.

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I'm still trying to get better. I still have the passion for it. I believe in it. Everyone can learn to do what I do.

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And yet there's a group here that continues to get extraordinary verdicts. Trial Lawyers University is revolutionizing, educating lawyers to be better trial lawyers. It's been invaluable to me.

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Trail Lawyers University, where the Titans come to train. Produced and powered by LawPods.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:00:30

All right. Well, we're joined here today by my old dear friend, Orlando De Castroverde, who rolled all the way in here to Hermosa Beach last night from my former stomping grounds of lovely Las Vegas. That's

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:00:44

Right. What's up, Dan?

Dan Ambrose (: 00:00:45

Well, Orlando work. You're one of my person who's been probably training with me longer. The only person that's been consistently training in some way, shape, or form would be our friend, Nick Wooldridge, other than you, because I remember all the time. Do you remember where we first met?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:01:08

Yeah. First time I met you was in Vegas. My good buddy, Brian Nettles somehow arranged, got you to present to the Clark County Public Defender's Office. And you were presenting. It was a small little room in Vegas. And I walk in and you're doing some type of presentation on- On voir

Dan Ambrose (: 00:01:30

Dire.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:01:30

No, no, no. It was how to be physical and how to actually act out the story that you're trying to tell. So when I walked in, you had somebody in a headlock and you're trying to give a opening statement about, I think your client was put in a headlock by a cop. So I was watching-

Dan Ambrose (: 00:01:53

Full of arm off. Yeah. I think it was some type of excessive force case I was doing back then. So Orlando, I think it was back 2017, 2018, you come to your first Trojan horse program. Obviously that was my program, my training program I did from 2014 to the pandemic. But where was that program at?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:02:16

Los Angeles. It was in LA, one of the hotels there downtown.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:02:21

Okay. Probably the Sheridan. Probably the Sheridan downtown. All right. And so what did you get from that first program you came to? What were your takeaways?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:02:31

So originally my reason for going was that's around the time that I wanted to try to start getting back into trying cases. And I don't know how I heard about the program, but that was the whole kind of the reason of going, trying to, "Hey, I got this case and I want to see if they can help me put this case ready for trial." And then when I went there, yeah, I realized storytelling, structure, and that was kind of the second time I met you.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:03:05

Right, when you came there. So actually, let's back up a little bit. How is it that somehow you got the inclination that you wanted to be a lawyer?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:03:16

Yeah. Well, my dad was a lawyer. So my dad passed away in 2014, but he was a lawyer. And his story was pretty cool. My mom and dad were black jack dealers growing up in Reno. When I was a kid, my dad was a dealer, my mom was a dealer, and my dad became a lawyer really late in life. Or he was like my age. I'm 51 now, but I think it was, again, it was late 40s. And he becomes a lawyer. And then I worked at his office in junior high, high school. When I'd come back from college, I'd work in his office. So in the back of my mind, I always knew I maybe would follow in his footsteps to be a lawyer, but I didn't know, "Hey man, I want to be a lawyer." That was my brother who I work with, Alex.

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He knew he always wanted to be a lawyer from a young age.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:04:10

And so back then, but in college, well, before college you were a state champion wrestler and then you were a junior college champion wrestler. And then what was your wrestling career like for you in college?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:04:24

Yeah. So I went to Questa College in San Luis Obispo and I went to the junior college there two years. So I was a junior college all- American. My second year took third. And then I went to Cal State Fullerton where I wrestled and I was a two-time NCA Division I qualifier. My junior year, I was one match away from being all American. That's what they call the blood rounds.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:04:52

Right. Does it bother you at all

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:04:55

That

Dan Ambrose (: 00:04:55

You didn't get to be a champion?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:04:56

Yeah. Yeah. It still does. Not as much as before, but it was really interesting. Even after becoming a lawyer, having my practice for a long, long time, it bothered me. In say consumed me, but it really did irritate me, bothered me. And it wasn't until I had an epiphany at some point, just said like, "Dude, get fucking over it. Get over it. You focus on you got a great practice, you got a family. There's so much more. Everything you want to do as a wrestler, do it now as a lawyer."

Dan Ambrose (: 00:05:38

Just maybe you have to try to make up for your lack of winning at the level you wanted with maybe winning really big in the courtroom might start to feel some of that void that I can still feel just still radiates from within you. So hopefully that happens for you. I don't know, but we're working on it. We're on the right path.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:06:01

I hope so.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:06:01

Oh, I think you are on the right path.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:06:03

But that's what I tell our team members, like the lawyers that work with me, how special. One of the coolest things about being a trial lawyer, I mean, the money's great. It's great when you win the verdicts, but beyond that, just it's sports. You get to be a big kid and really compete and really you see the return on investment. The more you work, the more you out hustle the other side and grind and get ready and practice and train and really care, the better the results are. To me, it is sports, but I didn't realize that until ... I didn't realize that right away. I wish I had realized that sooner as a newer lawyer as opposed to later. But that's what I think is so cool about being a trial lawyer is the sports and the competitive component. Who else gets to go to work every day and compete?

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And the harder you compete, the greater result you get.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:07:09

Oh.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:07:09

It's awesome.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:07:10

No, I agree. It's great. And if you really work at it and get to high level, you get rewarded real nicely by the world. So that's a great thing. So you grew up working in your dad's office and you're this college almost champion, and at some point you decide to go to law school. So give us some insight into your law school experience.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:07:38

Yeah. So I ended up going to law school. I was a communications major and I wasn't too sure what I was going to do with that. So I ended up going to Ole Miss in Oxford, Mississippi. It was one of three state schools I got accepted to. I think I paid 10,000 bucks a year out of state tuition. My rent was like 300 bucks. I went there with a bike, no car, just a bike. And I had an awesome experience at Ole Miss. It was really, really cool. Did

Dan Ambrose (: 00:08:10

You do any moot trial, mock court, anything trial ad? Anything to get you?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:08:15

Zero. I just did my appellate court requirement.That's all I did. You

Dan Ambrose (: 00:08:21

Did the minimum, we'll say that.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:08:23

No, I did the minimum with the curriculars, the extra stuff. But I really nerded out on the studies. And my first week, maybe my first or second week, I went with my ex- girlfriend to law school. My second week, I'm there. We were at a bar, we were drinking. I think we got in an argument. And then I ended up walking home and I literally walked right by the jail and I'm walking a couple blocks past and a cop comes and says, "Hey, have you been drinking?" I said, "Yeah, I've been drinking." Yeah, what the fuck you think I'm walking on the side of the street for you? And he's like, "Can I see your ID?" I just showed him my ID. And then he's like, "All right, put your hands behind your back." And he drives me literally from here to across the street to the jail and arrests me for public intoxication.

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And then next day I'm sulking. I'm like, "Fuck this place. I want to go back to California. This is terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

Dan Ambrose (: 00:09:32

California's pretty fucking awesome. We're here now. Yeah. Yeah,

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:09:35

It is.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:09:35

Everybody agrees.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:09:36

It is. But it was a blessing. I kind of looked at it like a blessing. How

Dan Ambrose (: 00:09:41

So?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:09:42

Well, because after feeling sorry for myself for a couple days, I said, "You know what, man, I'm here to go to law school. I'm here. I'm living with my girl. I don't need to be going out and partying. I'm here to go to school." And it really rechanneled me and got me focused to just studying. And I ended up graduating top 10% of my class. Old Miss, I know there's some law schools that aren't competitive. They say they don't give out rankings or Old Miss. It was cool. After each semester, you go and you get your little card and it tells you where you rank. And I was really competitive. So trying to be in the top 10%.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:10:22

April 21st through 25th in Hermosa Beach, California, we're hosting a bootcamp where you will train in the fundamental skills of trial, witness prep and direct, cross-examination, performance skills, which are opening statement and closing argument and jury selection or voir dire, depending on where you live. We're going to focus on eye contact, voice control, emotional state control, hand and body movement, glance control, creating space amongst other skills. And then once you learn these skills, we're going to apply them to your case. So at the end of the day, it's an investment and a case expense. This program will fundamentally change your life.

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I wasn't too competitive. I was trying to be anything more than, honestly, not to be more like a two, four, like a C+ because I didn't want to get kicked out of school, but I didn't want to spend too much energy on school either because I just figured it's a waste of time. I'm never going to work for somebody else. What the fuck is the difference? I might as well use that time to make money. I was a house painter back then or just work or just do other stuff, but have fun. Why waste the time? It's like I wasn't going to go work for somebody. I was never getting a job. So I admire your nerding out on

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:11:41

It. I still had fun. Oh

Dan Ambrose (: 00:11:42

Yeah.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:11:43

I still had fun, but I tried to focus too.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:11:45

Well, that fun led you to your first right after law school. What's your first gig out of law school?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:11:52

So I did a stint in Houston before my third year of law school for a small little insurance maritime defense firm. I think they had like eight lawyers in Houston, Texas. They did an on- campus interview and they had an old miss alum interviewed me and I'd never been paid that much money. When I got the first check, it was good.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:12:18

How much was a lot of money?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:12:19

I don't know. I think it was like 1,800 bucks for a college kid for a couple weeks of work. Yeah, I went out on the town that ... Anyways, I had fun. So I had a fun experience in Houston, but I realized what I didn't want to do. I remember driving to Beaumont, Texas with the partner and he was going to do a deposition. It was like a work comp case, maritime defense. And he said, "Orlando, maybe in a couple years you could do a deposition on your own." And I was thinking to myself like, "What are you talking about? " Because I had worked at my dad's office and I knew what a deposition was. I'm not going to wait two years to do a deposition. So I realized having done that, I don't want to do the whole insurance defense and keeping track six minutes, billable hours.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:13:08

I heard most insurance defense lawyers enjoy building in six minute increments. That's one of the things they look forward to every day is the micromanagement.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:13:15

They hate it. That

Dan Ambrose (: 00:13:16

Wasn't for you. Yeah. I think they hate their lives.That's why some of them

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:13:19

Were countries. So what happened was I ended up, I graduated from Ole Miss. I know I'm going to go back to Vegas, live with my parents. And my dad has his office there and I didn't want to do insurance defense, but I didn't want to just go work at my dad's office without really adding any value, without bringing something to the table. So I ended up getting another job with like a med mal insurance defense, but I had also interviewed with a law clerk who was a district court judge named Lee Gates in Vegas, awesome guy. He's retired now in Colorado. I kept calling his JEA, his assistant, wanting to know if I got the job. And she's a lovely lady, Delois Williams. She's still working at the courthouse. She's like, "The judge hasn't let me know. He's on the bench. I'll let you know.

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" And then this is my first day at this insurance defense job and right at the end of the day, like 4:00 PM, and they had handed me ... Before that, they put a bunch of depos on my desk and said, "We want some summaries." And I'm like, "Dude, this sucks." And by the end of the day, I got a call from Delois and she said, "Orlando, the judge has given you the job to be his law clerk." I was all, this is awesome. So I gave my resignation that day. I said, "I'm so sorry. I loved working here, but I got a job."

Dan Ambrose (: 00:14:51

How long did work in Houston for?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:14:52

Well, that was in Vegas. No,

Dan Ambrose (: 00:14:54

In Houston, Hollywood.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:14:55

Houston, I was there like seven, eight weeks.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:14:57

Okay. I thought it was my first day on the job.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:15:00

No, so this was my first day on the job. And after I had taken the bar and I was working for a med mal defense firm in Vegas, my very first day, but I still didn't know if I was going to get this law clerk job. And when I got the job, I resigned and then I started working for this judge and I clerked for a year and a half. Awesome judge.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:15:23

And that year and a half, what benefits do you think you got from being sitting there?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:15:31

Yeah, ton. I mean, one, when you get to law clerk, I mean, it gives you a lot of confidence because you get to learn from the inside out how the court works. What happens when you file a document? Does somebody read it? Do they look at it? Where does it go? What happens? How do things get calendared? Does the judge read the stuff?

Dan Ambrose (: 00:15:53

Did the judge read your stuff?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:15:55

He relied heavily on the law clerk.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:15:59

So he didn't read the actual briefs. You read the briefs and he wrote those opinions and he signed them.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:16:03

Yeah. Well, primarily he relied really heavily on me. I mean, obviously, he was very, very well prepared. So I took a lot of pride in that. But also I got to watch trials, right? Your criminal cases, you had a split docket. So you get to watch good lawyers, bad lawyers. You get to befriend a lot of the lawyers because they'll call up. They want their orders signed. You get to meet the judges, the staff, the important people. So yeah, I mean, I learned a ton and that's what gave me confidence to go back and work with my dad. And also, I had a bar issue with ... Clerking also allowed me ... I was waiting to get officially approved for my moral fitness and character.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:16:53

Because of that drinking incident?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:16:55

A few. When I was

Dan Ambrose (: 00:16:56

In- One or two, a couple of few of them.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:16:59

Yeah. So when I was in college and law school, I had a few arrests that were just like alcohol related arrests, like publican talks or just silly stuff like the one that I talked about, one in Vegas, some when I was in college at Cal State Fullerton, two in law school. So just a few alcohol related arrests that hung me up.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:17:19

They call that a pattern, Orlando, a pattern of behavior if you're not aware. You as just a few. They're all these people are so ... They're so sensitive. They're so technical.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:17:27

Anyway, you know what?

Dan Ambrose (: 00:17:27

I thougt they were sensitive. They held me up for a couple years the first time. Actually, California held me up for a couple years too, but they just love to get to know me better.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:17:34

And I would say I was kind of young and naive. Even at the time, I had to get a lawyer to help me. I'm still friends with him. His name was Pete Christiansen. So he helped me through the ... He was my lawyer for the bar issue. But I don't know. I didn't take it as seriously as I should have.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:17:53

Me

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:17:54

Too. But ultimately I ended up getting approved, got my moral fitness and character. And then that was perfect timing right around after the year and a half that I clerked. Now I could go work for my dad. And another good fact, Dan, I did get the top for my bar. It was somewhat ironic because I got the top MBE score for the whole state. I got a 186 the year I took the bar. But then I get this letter in the mail saying, "Congratulations. You've passed the bar exam, but you're still not a lawyer."

Dan Ambrose (: 00:18:31

They call us unofficial results, Orlando. Yeah. I got a letter like that too. It's not that exciting. Join me and my mentor, David Clark, May 27th through June 2nd in Huntington Beach, California for a dark arts bootcamp. This program will change your life. Dave will teach you about neural linguistic programming, conversational hypnosis, embedding stories in the unconscious mind. He changed my life and he'll change yours. And I'll coach you on your witness prep and direct, cross-examination, performance skills for opening statement and closing argument and voir dire. These days will change your life. Come for the bootcamp, stay for TLU Beach, the greatest conference ever. So you go work for your dad. See, I worked for my dad for a while, but I think you had a positive ... Tell us about the experience working with Mr. Senior Castroverde. Waldo.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:19:31

Come Waldo.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:19:32

Waldo.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:19:33

Waldo.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:19:33

Waldo De Castroverde.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:19:35

So one of the really cool things with my dad was he had an incredible amount of confidence in me and my brother. Just a ton. It wasn't like almost like the opposite of the partner, the story that I was telling you, "Hey, maybe you could do a depo in a couple years." My dad had a criminal client, a Brazilian guy who was charged with not paying back casino markers at the Bellagio. The weekend it opened. And he was on trial for, I think, six or seven felony counts of not paying back these markers. And the trial was going to start a month or so after I had just started with my dad. And my dad asked the client, "Hey, can Orlando try the case? You mind?" So I tried this case.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:20:23

And the client said yes?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:20:24

He said yes.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:20:25

What a fucking idiot, but go ahead.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:20:26

Yeah. And I did the jury selection. I cross-examined one of the main state witnesses and we got an acquittal.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:20:36

That's amazing.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:20:37

We got a not guilty verdict.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:20:39

Did you do the closing argument?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:20:40

No, my dad did.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:20:41

But you did the opening?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:20:42

Awesome. I remember my sister, because my sister was my dad's secretary. My sister was my dad's secretary, like only employee. And I remember him saying, "Dad, you should let Orlando do the closing." And my dad was like, "Be quiet. I'm going to do it. " But my dad was awesome.That's the one thing, not so much like a writer, motion person or detail. My dad was just a very good, passionate, connect with people and just likable. Everybody loved my dad. The best thing when I go to court now, what I love is still seeing the guys that was telling me, "Man, your dad was one of the good guys. Your dad was one of the ... He was the real good old timers. He was a good guy."

Dan Ambrose (: 00:21:27

I guess I experienced that in the beginning of my career because my dad would play the saxophone. So he was a saxophonist. He would always do the music for all the judges' parties. That was his way of getting connected with everybody and being friends with all the judges because he's like this trial stuff. He's like, "You got to know everybody, Dan." So that was his connection tool. So how long do you, and it's just you and your dad are the only lawyers at the firm?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:21:51

So it was interesting because my brother became a lawyer, Alex. I work with my brother Alex. We both own the firm and he became a lawyer a year before me. He went to Nova Southeastern. He always knew he wanted to be a lawyer, always knew he wanted to work with my dad. And so he goes to work with my dad and my brother, very well intentioned, wanted to make good changes, change procedures and policies, which I think he was right. But anyways, my dad got fed up and they were arguing and said, "You know what, this isn't going to work." So my brother ends up going to work for an architect design professional firm. That's how he met Brian Nettles because Brian worked in the same office where his firm was. And then so my brother's working over there and then he sees I'm doing pretty good.

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Me and my dad are doing pretty good. My dad didn't want to do personal injury. Said, "Hey, Orlando, you do all the personal injury." And we slowly started building up and

Dan Ambrose (: 00:22:58

Then- Making some money.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:22:59

Making some money. And then my brother ... And I would talk to Alex all the time. We'd go to lunch and hang out with Brian. And then finally he's like, "Fuck, man, I'm going to come over with you guys." Which was awesome because that's ultimately what my dad always wanted. And me too.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:23:16

Right. With your family.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:23:19

What more can you ask for? So he comes, he joins and it was actually Alex that was really the one behind like, "Fuck man, let's blow this thing. Let's blow it up. Let's advertise. Let's go big on Spanish TV and try to be the biggest player for the Hispanic market." Because my dad at that time only had some commercials, but not a big budget. I was doing a little bit, but not huge. And so my brother was the one that really wanted to really push that.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:23:58

So your brother comes back and joins your firm. And so what does your firm look like today?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:24:04

Yeah. So today we've got I think 16 lawyers. Primarily almost the majority of all our lawyers are personal injury lawyers, including my brother and I. We do criminal defense. We've got two lawyers that do criminal defense. We've got an immigration team as well. But we've got probably about 80, 80 employees. Jesus. We got some virtual employees above that. And we were over a hundred at some point, but over the last couple of years, we've kind of trimmed a little bit. We're at right about 80.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:24:40

And you do a lot of billboard advertising.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:24:42

Yeah. We do a lot of billboards in Spanish TV, in English TV. We had a very cool Super Bowl commercial. I know. That was pretty cool.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:24:54

I know. I still have to see it. Still dying to see him. It's a terrible friend. My friend has his first Super Bowl commercial. I don't even watch. I'm going to be a better human being though. So you got your firm rolling now. And so back in 2018, after you and I meet and you come out to your first Trojan horse out here in downtown LA, tell us about your ... Because I was always fascinated. I'm like, the guy's a billboard lawyer. What's a billboard? Billboard lawyers get cases and refer them to the big guys and they do prelim on the small shit. So how is it that you decide, "Hey, I'm going to learn how to try these

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:25:37

Cases." Well, one of it was, I guess, getting tired of referring all the cases to other lawyers.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:25:47

All your big cases? Yeah,

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:25:48

All the big cases. So when I was a newer lawyer, when my dad was alive and Alex, we were trying a lot of cases, but they were all whiplash cases, hard cases, and getting mixed results, but also not having the team. Basically going in there, not fully being prepared, doing jury selection all on my own, not having a team to help. And the results weren't all that great. And then I went through a period of time where I didn't ... I decided I'm not going to try any cases. I'm just going to focus on the business and try to really grow the business. In 18, when I met you, that's kind of when I kind of made a decision with our firm like, "You know what? Let's make a commitment to really try to be trial lawyers. Let's try to try the cases." I was seeing a lot of cases come through.

(: 00:26:45

I see the checks. I signed the checks, the disbursement sheets, and I was like, "We just talked about this case.This case had a lot higher value. Why did it settle?" And I saw this pattern and then I realized like, oh, I get it. Nobody wants to try the cases.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:27:04

But you.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:27:04

And I think in defense of our newer lawyers, they were probably looking at me saying like, "Fuck, you try the case, man." And that's- It's

Dan Ambrose (: 00:27:15

So easy. Why don't you go do it?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:27:16

Yeah. And that's when I kind of decided I was going through a separation at that time and I was going to have more time on my hands. And that's when I figured, "You know what? Let's do it. " My dad had always told my brother and I, "You guys can do it. Why are you guys giving your best cases away?" And so that's when I kind of made the decision like, "Hey, let's do this. " And we had a really cool team of young lawyers that also wanted to be trial lawyers. So we did it together as a team. All the trials I've ever done, I've never done that trial by myself. We've all done it as a team. So a lot of new lawyers ... We had one case that I did in November 23 with one of our lawyers, Millie. She had been a lawyer for two weeks and she said, "Yeah, can I do it with you?

(: 00:28:09

" I said, "Absolutely." So she argued all the motions, all the cause challenges, did the rebuttal. I think we got a $900,000 verdict. We call her million dollar Millie now because she's done three trials and they've all been million dollar plus verdicts.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:28:24

Look at that. And those are her first three trials. Yeah.

(: 00:28:27

Wow. It's so great for people to start out on a positive foot like that because I just hear so many stories of young lawyers getting shit cases that nobody can settle because there's so many problems and going into court and just getting brought slapped down, smacked down, smashed. And they're like, "Whoa, you still got some experience." I'm like, "You got experience being a loser. You got experience gets your ass kicked." And I'm not saying that's not healthy to build a little resilience like that, but I am saying that when you don't have any success and you get smacked down, and then let's say they give them another shit case, you go get smacked down again and again, that person ain't getting up soon. That person's going to become a settler and be like, "Oh, this trial shit's not for me. " Because their ego, their self-esteem gets destroyed.

(: 00:29:17

But what you're doing for these young lawyers is building their self-esteem into something very strong, which is great. I mean, that's what every young person wants, right? Everybody wants to be a winner, but you can be a winner young and get your confidence going, that's pretty damn cool. TLU Hunt and Beach is going to be the greatest event of 2026. There's going to be four lecture tracks, eight workshop tracks with the top trial lawyers in the country. On Tuesday, June 2nd, there's going to be a golf outing and also a pickleball outing. That night, we're going to have a dinner at the Lorea. We're going to buy it out so everybody gets a chance to meet each other beforehand. And then during the conference, of course, we do a full breakfast, full lunch, and theme parties every night This year we're going to be utilizing the pool area and the restaurant for more of the parties, and we're going to have an adult swim right one night, a Satch Oliver party on Friday night.

(: 00:30:10

And the last theme party is going to be a 80s run DMC Adida jumpsuit. It's going to be the greatest. And last year we had over 800 people. This year it's going to be over a thousand. So if you want to be part of it all and you want to stay at the Pue Hotel, don't delay because it sells out fast and then you're going to be in the overflow. Can't wait to see you there. TLU Beach.

(: 00:30:35

So you did the Trojan horse in Los Angeles and then you did a couple more after that right before you got into your first trial again.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:30:44

Yes. So I'd done a couple Trojan horses with you in LA and then I did a cool workshop at your apartment in downtown LA for the jury selection. So one of my biggest fears was jury selection.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:31:01

Yeah. You and about 90% of the other lawyers out there, but

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:31:03

You're not

Dan Ambrose (: 00:31:04

Alone.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:31:05

Because before I was doing jury selection based off Dave Ball books, but not really, I don't know, just going up there, taking notes, not listening, just not doing a good job. And one of my fears was, and I was aware of that, is the jury selection part of the trial. So when you had that bootcamp at your apartment, you had all these scripts and you gave it to us ahead of time. And I nerded out. I listened to these scripts. I knew them better than anybody else at the bootcamp. The

Dan Ambrose (: 00:31:43

Bar was set low though at some of those early bootcamps

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:31:45

That you were reading over the scripts. I think Bo Bruner was there. I think I met John Garter. Yeah. He was there. So I did the bootcamp. And then the first trial after I kind of decided that I was going to start trying cases again, working with you a lot was we actually got the last verdict in Vegas before COVID shut down. And you flew down. I was kind of a little ... So I'm preparing. This is the weekend of the trial. I'm preparing and I was kind of a little scared. So I figured I called you and asked if you could come down for the weekend and you were cool. You said, "Yeah, no, I don't think you had anything." So you flew down and I think you flew in on a Sunday.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:32:35

I think it was Sunday night because I don't remember a lot of things, but this is kind of traumatic. So I remember it. I remember I go to your office and you were the only ones there. I think we were upstairs and you gave me your opening. And do you remember what my response was after I saw your opening?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:32:52

Yeah. You said it sucked.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:32:55

I said, "That's a piece of shit," is what I said specifically. But it was great though, because then we got to work redoing the whole thing and practicing it.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:33:05

Yeah. So we went to ... I had to pick up some suits. I was having my ... I bought a couple new suits and they were getting him over at Nordstrom. So I said, "Dan, they're going to close down." So we got to get over there to pick up the suits. The fashion

Dan Ambrose (: 00:33:19

Show mall?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:33:19

The fashion show. So while we were waiting to pick up the suits or after I picked them up, he said, "Hey, let's practice your opening here in front of the public. That way you feel comfortable to other people. " So we were doing the opening. I remember a couple of people I knew. They were like, "What the fuck is this guy doing?" Standing up in front of the coffee shop talking to himself. So then I practiced the opening and then we did that trial. It's kind of funny because we were picking the jury. I was

Dan Ambrose (: 00:33:46

There for jury selection. Yeah.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:33:48

So you helped with the jury selection. This judge only gave us two hours. It's funny because I remember she had said-

Dan Ambrose (: 00:33:54

I think the actual term, I was helpless for the jury selection because I just had to sit and watch it. I was like, "What's

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:33:59

Your memory of it?

Dan Ambrose (: 00:34:00

I'll tell you my memory." I remember

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:34:01

This judge, she said, "Hey, there will be no discussion of apple pie." And she had said this at a prior hearing when we were talking about some of her orders. And then before I do the jury selection, I asked her, "Judge, I recall you saying something about no discussion of apple pie contest. And I just want to make sure you weren't serious about that. You were just joking." And she said, "Mr. DeCasari, I was absolutely serious about that. You will not discuss that. " And then she gave us the two hours. And I remember I'd made a lot of progress. I'd done a lot of the scripts, I'd worked, I'd done a lot of focus groups, but I still need a lot of work. I used the podium, which I don't use now. I was fucking tied to the podium. And

Dan Ambrose (: 00:34:53

Then we did- You didn't breathe properly. You went too fast. Let's see. Your voice would drop down low where the judge would be like, "Can you keep your voice up?" So I remember that. And I also remember that you were having trouble listening. I remember that because somebody would give you something and you'd be like, "Okay, thank you. Just move on. " I'd be like ...

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:35:15

Yeah. And

Dan Ambrose (: 00:35:15

I was trying to pass notes. But this is what happens because when you're young, you're inexperienced, you're tense, you're so focused on what you're going to say next, you're so nervous. It's so hard to listen, but that's everybody. It feels like you're the only one there, but it's like I see it time and time again. But you got to get up to keep doing it. Get yourself in front of those nervousness things.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:35:40

Yeah. And then that trial was pretty cool because we got the last verdict before COVID. The very next day, the courts all shut down. I remember my brother was telling me about everything that's going on with COVID and, oh my God. And I'm like, "What the fuck are you talking about? " Because we were so channeled in on the trial, but we ended up getting a good result. What's the

Dan Ambrose (: 00:36:04

Verdict?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:36:05

It was I think 211,000.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:36:08

And what was the offer prior

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:36:10

To? I think like 40,000. So it was 100,000 open policy. And I think we ended up, I think, getting 300 waive appeal, fees, costs, all that. Yeah.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:36:25

I felt good about my consulting on that case.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:36:27

Yeah. I

Dan Ambrose (: 00:36:28

Was like, no, because as a consultant, you want to make a difference.That one, especially with the opening.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:36:32

So it did. A lot of times with the opening, it's hard. Some people I think are more gifted with the storytelling. I think that's where you've always been helpful coming in and helping creating the space and making it more, saying it in the present tense, more entertaining for the jury as opposed to ... I mean, you still see a lot of really, really good lawyers who just talk in the past tense. I still do it because it's a challenge.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:37:03

It's more than the present tense because you will speak in the present tense if you are imagining, picturing the story you're telling, you will be in the present tense. Because a lot of my insights on all this stuff came from my buddy Dave Clark out in Omaha. And I remember when I was demonstrating a piece of voir dire for him on the presumption of innocence when we were back watching Spencer's last trial in Des Moines, Iowa back in 2012, we were talking about Spence's voir dire and he goes, "You got criminal voir dire. I don't do criminal shit because there ain't no money yet, but you got any?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And so I demonstrate my presumption of innocence voir dire, which you've seen. And he goes, "Does shit work for you? " I'm like, "Yeah, I've only lost two out of the last 100 jury trials I've done." He's like, "Yeah, do you why it works?" I'm like, "No." He goes, "When you can make the unconscious conscious, you're going to be fucking dangerous." In the civil world, we call that rich.

(: 00:37:58

And of course he was manipulating me to have him be my consultant, but it worked well, but it's about making the unconscious conscious because we all tell stories from our own lives. If you were to tell me a story about whatever, driving here last night, hitting the traffic, you wouldn't be just looking at me eye, you'd be like, "I'm driving down, we're coming down 15 and it's just like going and going and going and then just boom." It's like 7:00 in the evening.out these day traffic and it's just lined up forever and we're just sitting there and it's like stop and go and stop and go. You can only tell the story like that because you're picturing the freeway because it's your own life. And so that's the key is to just picture the story instead of remembering words or anything else, just like it's your own life.

(: 00:38:48

And so we've all had enough experiences that we can pretty much picture most of our clients' experience. We haven't experienced losing a leg or maybe getting blinded in eye, but for the most part we can imagine what people are going through. So that's really what it's about. Join us April 15th and 16th in Hermosa Beach, California at the TLU Beach House. We are doing a two-day witness prep and direct examination workshop. And the witness prep will teach you not only how to get your clients to remember their stories, but to relive them and then the direct examination so the jury just doesn't hear the story, but they experience it, they witness it. And this is right before Nick Reilly's Trial by Human in West Hollywood, April 17th through 19th. So come for the witness prep, stay for Trial by Human. We'll see you there. So you were talking about this case with Millie, where you got the 900,000.

(: 00:39:44

What was that case about?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:39:45

Yeah, so that was a car crash case. So what's cool, our firm, we got to do the case that you helped with, and then I think you helped also with the next case we did where our firm, we actually got to do the very first case in Las Vegas after COVID. And what was crazy was the trial wasn't supposed to start for another week. And I'm at the coffee shop I go to, I'm at Vesta, I just got my coffee, I'm in my car and I get a call and I could

Dan Ambrose (: 00:40:20

Tell- One of the things I miss about Vegas is Vesta. I was there

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:40:22

A couple

Dan Ambrose (: 00:40:23

Times a week.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:40:24

Vesta, Bungalow, Public Us, great coffee shop. And I get a call and they said, "This is so- and-so from Judge Johnson's department." And I said, "Yeah, how could I help you? You're starting trial in half an hour. You need to be here." And I'm like, "What? It's not supposed to start till next week." And they're like, "That was a mistake. It's starting today. Judge says you need to be here in half an hour." And normally, in the past, I'd probably be freaked out a little bit like, "Fuck, I'm not ready." But we'd been doing a lot of focus groups. That was one of the things that learning the scripts. I listened a lot to Sean Claggett, his story and just how focus groups got him so much better. So we'd been doing a lot of focus groups. So when I got the call, I was like, "No, not that big a deal.

(: 00:41:16

I just went. I went home, I got my suit, I called, and then we did it in the convention center." So this trial that really wasn't that big, she had one injection, a medial branch block and got better, but it was big because it was in the convention center. Everybody was staggered out and everybody had their mask, had to be distanced, and the judge was making a big deal. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first court, this is the first trial since COVID. So people felt like ... And we won. And we won the trial. It was a good defense lawyer. And I did it with two lawyers that are no longer with me, Mike Matsky and Brandon Grossman, and we were all fired up. I mean, you would've thought we won a million bucks.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:42:04

And you all split up the work on the trial, right?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:42:05

Yeah. We all split it up. Mike did the rebuttal, did the cross of the defense doctor. He was real talented with the cross. Brandon ... Yeah, we all split it up. So team effort.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:42:20

Oh, that's great how you get these young people involved in a trial.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:42:25

Yeah.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:42:27

Because most firms, most people, especially young lawyers, make them sit there for years before they think they're ready for a witness. And so you have that little warm up there. And then you and I worked on a case a little bit. Well, because that was your best ... I'll take credit for it, but that was because you're teaching at TLU Beach, which is June 3rd through 6th. So what case are you teaching on?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:42:59

Yeah. So the case name, our client was Carolina Castro Gaitan, and Millie did the trial with me. In the case, we didn't think it was all that special. It was a car crash case. The other defendant ran a light, hit our client, and she hurt her neck. And she had 110,000 in medical bills, and her treatment was steroid injections to her neck, and she was recommended for future injections for her neck, steroid injections. So we didn't look at it. It wasn't like a surgery case, or we didn't have a life care planner saying, "Hey, she needs X." We just had our pain doctor saying, "Hey, she's going to need injections. This is what it costs." So we weren't expecting huge, but everything kind of aligned in the preparation that we put into it as far as scripting, how we want to present the witnesses, what props we want to use, when we want to use the easel, how we want to use it, making sure keeping it up there so the jury can see.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:44:12

Talk about how you use the flip chart. We'll call it a flip chart. So the easel is what the flip chart sits on for clarity.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:44:19

Okay. Thank you for correcting

Dan Ambrose (: 00:44:20

Me, Dan. We don't want anybody being confused, flip chart versus easel. So flip chart, tell us about your use of it.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:44:27

The flip chart definitely helps with our orthopedic surgeon. One of the issues in the case was whether or not our client had an extrusion at one of the levels in her neck. And our surgeon did a really good job. He's like, "Do you mind if I draw it for the jury?" No problem. Do you mind if I ... Judge, can Dr. Kabins come down and draw? Sure. So he got down right in front and this jury courtroom was awesome because there's no pony wall dividing the jury from us. So it's very intimate. It's almost like us. We're just talking. So he gets down there. I see

Dan Ambrose (: 00:45:09

How some of those courtrooms how small they are in Vegas.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:45:12

Yeah. And I love it because they're sitting right next to that. You intimate. So he comes down and then he starts drawing the spine, the extrusion. And that was really powerful because the way he had the juice, the discs sleeping out of there. And then the jury, we would leave the flip board there the whole time. So the jury is essentially seeing this big extrusion every day. And then we revisit the flipboard with other witnesses, other doctors. "Hey, Dr. Cavens wrote this. Do you agree? We show it again. "So one, I thought it was really effective with our witnesses. Two, for me in particular, it really helps with the cross-examining of the experts, the defense experts, because I think it's a real way that we can limit and box them in with the easel, yes or no questions, and they're really specific. So I used the easel cross-examining their defense doctor.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:46:19

Was that the first time you'd used it in trial?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:46:22

No, I'd used it before in prior cases, also with the defense expert. I would say this is the best use of it in trial, where we used it on multiple witnesses and really thought it out.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:46:38

We're starting off the summer right, May 8th and 9th in Hermosa Beach, California at the TLU Beach House. We're doing a two-day witness prep and direct examination workshop. You will learn how to prepare your clients so they just don't remember their stories, but they relive them. And then we transition that to direct examination so the jury just doesn't hear the story, but they relive them, they experience them, they witness them. We'll see you there. As far as your opening statement, what did you do to get ready for your opening statement?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:47:11

Yeah. So you helped me with the opening statement. You went down to my Tivoli office and helped me. You

Dan Ambrose (: 00:47:18

Had a focus group. Remember that?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:47:20

Yeah, I did a focus group, but when I was telling the story, I really wasn't imagining it, kind of how we had talked about. So

Dan Ambrose (: 00:47:29

You

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:47:29

Had worked-

Dan Ambrose (: 00:47:30

Hold on, you're implying you were imagining it a little bit. You were not imagining it at all. It was a straight narrative to the jury.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:47:35

Correct. So what you worked

Dan Ambrose (: 00:47:37

On- And it was videotaped fortunately so we could review it.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:47:39

Yeah. Yeah. So what we worked on was just that literally, it's less than a minute, but it was powerful. It was really good. When I go up for the opening, because jury selection's already three days, they've heard a lot from me. I've already thanked them. So when I go up, it's just, I want to take you back to blah, blah, blah. And right away, they're leaning forward. They want to hear. So I thought it was really effective telling the story from the defendant's standpoint with the visualization. The idea was she's got her foot on the gas, but she's looking here and her cell phone, her foot is on the gas. And then when she looks up, it's red and then boom. So it was pretty effective. I definitely think it helped.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:48:35

A lot. And what was the verdict on it?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:48:38

So the verdict was 1.72 million.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:48:42

What was the offer before trial?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:48:45

25,000.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:48:46

Did it go up at all during trial?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:48:47

To 125. And we offered 400. And then I got an email saying no counter.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:48:55

Still think twice about that.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:48:55

I still haven't been paid yet though. Well- So a lot of these cases that we've won that are on appeal haven't been paid.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:49:03

That's what happens when you go to trial as opposed to settling. You have to wait a little longer to get your money. It's a bigger check, most likely if they're appealing, but you have to wait a little bit. That's the life of a trial lawyer. That's why a lot of trial lawyers are often short of money. They're waiting to get paid. They're

Voice Over (: 00:49:19

Waiting to

Dan Ambrose (: 00:49:19

Get paid. And I know because we talked about, because during our pickleball battles, Orlando does kick my ass at pickleball. I get to win occasionally a game or two, but I think it's a fitness childhood. Even with my lessons, I'm still getting masks. It's okay though, because now I got beach volleyball and beach tennis. So the most recent case you tried was a med mail case. And I thought that was kind of nuts on your part as you told me about this case because you haven't tried a med mail case before and those are generally a little more complicated and the offer on this case was how much?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:49:57

I think they had offered 40 ... I think they offered 40,000 a couple weeks before the trial. And then during jury selection, they offered 140. And then during the trial, they offered a high, low. And then after we rested, they paid the limits. And in Nevada, we have a cap and there were no economic damages. So we have a cap of, I think it would've been 500, 10,000 now for pain and suffering. And we had a claim potential for punitive. So they offered the million. It was kind of a no-brainer to take it.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:50:34

But what was the case about?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:50:35

Oh, so it was a delay in diagnosis. Our client, she went in to get a biopsy of a lump in her groin, and it came back positive for lymphoma, but nobody told her. The doctor that did the biopsy didn't tell her, and her primary care doctor also didn't tell her. It wasn't until six months later that she went back and they said, oh shit, you've got lymphoma.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:51:06

Did she suffer any adverse consequences from delay in diagnosis?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:51:10

Well, what we said was she lost a chance of remission. Scientifically, very hard to prove that she's any worse off than she would've been had they diagnosed it, but we were able to prove that she did lose a chance of remission. If you detect it early on, you have a possibility, a chance of getting rid of it. So that was the damage.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:51:43

I'm going to shift gears for a moment because I keep track of my TLU on demand watchers and you're often at the very top of the list of number of hours watched per week. And so tell us, how do you use TLU on demand is what I should say, which is the app that has all of the past conferences and all the live conferences and all the past webinars and have collected all the pleadings transcripts and PowerPoints for all those. So how do you use that? Because you've been subscribing for about, what, four years now?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:52:21

Well, I see it all the time. I use it all the time, but I love this stuff. I nerd out as far as just always trying to learn and get better. So I look at it all the time. I think if you go to a TLU and you have nine different lecture halls and you're like, "Fuck, man, I can only pick one. I want to watch it. "

Dan Ambrose (: 00:52:47

Or if you go to a workshop, I can't

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:52:49

Do

Dan Ambrose (: 00:52:49

Any of those lectures.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:52:50

So literally when you unroll the TLU Vegas 23 or 24, fuck, I was excited. Shit, I get to watch these now because I couldn't do it before. I could only be in one room. So for me, I think as we get older, you're so busy, time is like a big ... My time is very, very precious. So when I'm in

Dan Ambrose (: 00:53:21

The- Six kids too, that you got to also be a dad too, and a husband now.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:53:25

So

Dan Ambrose (: 00:53:26

Your time is very, very short.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:53:28

And since I got a lot of kids, I'm picking up, going to practices, games. I work out at noon all the time, so I work out at noon. So anyways, I look at the time that I'm in the car, pretty valuable time. So all the time that I'm in the car, I'm listening to TLU. I'm not listening to music, I'm listening to TLU and being very really intentional, selective. And then when I listen to a good one, I'll share with my team and say, "Listen, we need to listen to this. " And then it goes so much deeper than just the lawyers because a lot of this stuff about the visuals and creating the visuals for the depo and how to be better trial. So it's not just me, I'm listening, my lawyers that work with me, they're listening. And then we have the trial prep team, the people that are doing the visuals.

(: 00:54:30

I need you to listen to it because this applies to you because it helps so much when now when you're talking to the whole team, everybody's on the same page. But I mean, to me, it's just like a no-brainer. There's no ... And for the newer lawyers that are coming out, it's such a game changer. Us, when I was a newer lawyer, we really didn't have that. I want to get better. Oh, go read Dave Ball or go read ... I don't know. There's mainly a handful of books. I remember Alex read Mo Levine a lot, my brother. But now, I mean, there's no better resource than you get to watch the best lawyers, right? Nick Riley, Sean Klage, Joe Free, all these guys. You get to watch these guys present and they're telling the stories and spoonfeedings. Some of them have six part lecture series.

(: 00:55:27

I'm going to give you from start to finish how I became successful. So anyways, yeah, it's a great tool. I'm Orlando De Castroverde. I've been a subscriber to Teal You On Demand ever since the start. Anytime I listen to a particular episode that's relevant to a case that I'm working on right away, I'm sharing it with my team saying, "Hey, you got to listen to this. " If you want to be the best trial lawyer that you can be, sign up for TLU on demand today.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:55:58

You're coming to TLU Beach and you're presenting on this case we talked about. How many of your team, how many lawyers are you bringing with you?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:56:05

Yeah, I think there's six of us that are going.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:56:07

So we're rolling deep at TIU.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:56:10

And I think what we're presenting on, I think what'll be cool for everybody, if you're thinking about, "Hey, why should I watch this? " It's the common case because a lot of times we'll go to TLU, "Hey, my client got killed by a forklift." A

Dan Ambrose (: 00:56:27

FedEx truck.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:56:27

Yeah, a FedEx truck. They have no legs, no arms, and I got this verdict. This is your typical case. There's a car crash case. She didn't get better with the chiropractic care. She had a positive MRI. They recommended an injection. She's got chronic pain. She's going to need it in the future. And they say it's all bullshit. It's just this is the case. So the takeaway, I think you'll get to see some of the things that we did, we were intentional about in trying to script it out and how to tell the story so you can try to replicate it if it applies in your cases.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:57:06

Yeah, that's the idea. That's the idea. So you were at TLU Beach last year and we've made some improvements since last year that I think you're going to be really stoked about because on Tuesday, June 2nd, we're going to be surf camp with Ed Seramboli and a go- kart ... I mean, pickleballing with Supio, but that night, which I'm really stoked about, is Finch is hosting a dinner at the restaurant there, the larea for 300 people. So it'll be at the restaurant and outside by the pool. It's going to be pretty sick though because everybody's there early, gets a great dinner, gets to hang out, socialize, and get to meet a lot of people before the conference even starts. And then the next morning, Patrick King, Kang from Vegas, the Asenago groups, he's hosting breakfast. So he's presenting on his mold verdict with a couple of his guys because he was supposed to come last year, but he couldn't because he had some ... There were very legitimate reasons otherwise I would tell him you're not part of Chile anymore.

(: 00:58:12

You can't not show up at a conference and just think it's okay. Joking, joking, joking. Anyways, and then

(: 00:58:22

For the new stuff. So we have a golf outing's new on Wednesday for Billy liked to golf. And then Wednesday afternoon we got, besides eight workshop tracks with like the Ben ... Did you ever do the Rabinowitz and Mike Kelly cross-examination masterclass of experts?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:58:36

Not in person, but I've listened to all the Ben Rabinowitz.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:58:41

Yeah, he's the man, huh? Yeah. So he's doing that there, but him and Kelly are teaching three other lectures and a workshop on voir dire. So that's going to be cool.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 00:58:48

Ben's one of those guys where it looks like it just comes so easy. He doesn't think about it just quick on his feet.

Dan Ambrose (: 00:58:57

Right. Mike, he's in trial. He has a shower at his office. He lives at his office from ... He's in trial. He separates from his family and he's in his 60s. He's serious about trial and the focus, but those guys are just wired differently, like him and Panish. But Panish is coming this year, but on Thursday, Wildress is teaching yoga in the morning, so that'd be fun. So that'd be an add-on. Ed Sara and Bully's doing the workout on the beach, but we're doing a full breakfast for everybody from 7:30 to 9:00. Then we got five lecture tracks. I've psyched about the case analysis track because that way more people get to talk about their vertics they got, especially everybody's part of TLU, people that have come and trained and fucking got results because I think most people, if you're competitive, you're like, "I want to be on that stage talking about my verdicts." But then Thursday night, we're buying out both the restaurant and the bar above it and we've got the Wayward Sons, which is like an 80s cover band kind of.

(: 00:59:58

So that's going to be 80s tracksuit party, I'm pretty stoked about that. And then Wednesday nights, Satchel Oliver deposition, Satch Oliver. So it's like a wild west party. So make sure that all your people ... It's not easy to ... It's not hard to theme, just wear a bandana or cowboy hat. Not saying they got to wear makeup or bring a gun. And then Saturday night for people like you, we have an opera ski/adult swim/pool party. So all this working out you've been doing in Orlando, it's going to pay off when it's time to go to the pool party. So I think you'd be stoked about that. And every night the lobby turns into a gaming lounge with the ping pong tables and the DJ. And then Sunday morning, Scott Frost has hosted breakfast for everybody, a brunch to leave. So you see what it'd be from Tuesday to Sunday.

(: 01:00:42

You know what people say to me? Oh, that's a long time. I'm like, you don't have to stay for the whole thing. Nobody's forcing you. But some people are having a great time and learning and doing cool shit that they're not just dying to get home. They're like, "I'll have one more day of fun." So during the pandemic, I just remember you, me and Nick doing quite a bit of work on these scripts in various ways, shapes and forms. Especially over at his office there. Remember he has a courtroom there. So we were practicing. At Eglit's

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:01:14

Office.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:01:16

At Eglitz's office. And then we did one at that same Sheridan downtown. Nick had his buddy in from New York and it was crazy.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:01:27

Downtown LA.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:01:28

Yeah, that was so crazy because it was just so-

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:01:32

What's crazy with Nick's buddy paid. I don't know what you charge for each of those for the bootcamp, but Nick's buddy came all the way from New York and I think he went to one session.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:01:42

Hey man, everybody's got their ... I'm not here to judge. We're not here to judge. But Orlando, you've had quite a bit of success in your career. So if you look back on all your ... Well, you've had some lows too, but with the highs, what accomplishment are you most proud of?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:02:06

Well, I mean, I am very, very proud of the De Castroverde Law, the team that we've assembled, being able to work. Well, one, it's starting with my dad, that's fucking awesome. That is incredible. I love just seeing people to this day that talk good about my dad and just knowing that he planted the seed and how proud he is to look down. Before he died, I could see in his smile when he would talk to his friends, he'd be given a speech. Nothing gave my dad more pride than just seeing his kids do good. And so I'm really proud of where we've started and where we've come from with my brother and surrounding ourselves just with good people because you can't get there all by yourself. Like my brother always say, "Hey, it's not going to happen because Orlando. It's not going to happen because of me.

(: 01:03:04

It's just all the people that we've kind of surrounded ourselves." So I am really, really proud of the team that we have now, instrumental people, my brother, Kimberly, our litigation manager, just the team that we've surrounded ourselves with, because I know we're in good position now to really do good things. I kind of view it like we're just getting started.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:03:32

You're

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:03:33

Just getting started. We're just getting started. And I wish I would've really focused and met you a lot earlier and really had that different mindset of instead of worrying about, "Oh man, I wish I wasn't all American." Just focused on, fuck man, I want to be a good trial lawyer and really focus on me being a good lawyer, making everybody around me a better lawyer, better trial lawyer.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:00

I'm preferred if you said I'm going to be a great trial lawyer or I'm a great trial lawyer. I just haven't fully self-realized yet because when use proper language about yourself-

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:10

Who

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:10

Wants to be good? Good week. Great.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:14

Yeah, I want to be great.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:16

Championship you didn't get in college. That might be helpful.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:22

So I'm proud of what we've accomplished, but I'm more proud of knowing that I think we can do a lot more.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:29

Yeah, dude. It's hopefully the best you've ever been and the worst you'll ever be.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:34

Yeah.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:34

If that's the case, we're rocking and rolling. Yeah.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:36

That's

Dan Ambrose (: 01:04:36

All I can say.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:04:37

And I think what I got to do is, my brother Alex tells me all the time, it's hard being the owner of the firm. And I like doing a lot of the other stuff as far as working on the cases, auditing cases and trying to work with the other team members to do, whether it be case managers, the other prelit lawyers-

Dan Ambrose (: 01:05:01

Coaching them.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:05:02

Coaching them. But the struggle is really just having the willpower just to leave that alone and realize I only have- It's called

Dan Ambrose (: 01:05:14

Discipline.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:05:15

Yeah, discipline. I only have a certain amount of time to really ... I think Sean Claggett did a really good job. I think he talked about his wife kind of gave him an ultimatum. I'm like, "Dude, fucking, if you want to be a good lawyer, then stop doing all this stuff." And I wrestle with that. I think I could do a lot better job of just ...

Voice Over (: 01:05:33

Delegate?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:05:33

Yeah, delegating and removing myself from a lot of parts of the firm and just really focus on being a better trial lawyer and working on only the cases that we're going to take to trial. So I'm going to try to do that.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:05:52

Well, great news is now we have a trial dojo in Hermosa Beach, so you can come out and practice more often and get even more prepared. So that's fortunate. So Orlando ... Oh, a couple things that I meant to mention before. So we have our Law Student Scholarship program here at Trial Lawyers University. So if any law students want to come to TLU, they just have to apply and there's a good chance to get in, to bet them a little bit. So I say that. And also, how do people get ahold of Orlando?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:06:23

Yeah, my cell phone is the best way to get ahold of me. It's 702-807-7246.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:06:32

And your email, the second best way?

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:06:34

Yeah. And that's all lowercase orlando@dlgteam.com.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:06:44

De Castroverde Law Group team.com. That's right. Team player. All right. And if anybody needs to get ahold of me, my cell is 248-808-3130. My email is dan@triallawyersuniversity.com. If you don't have TLU on demand, you want to do a trial subscription and check it out, see if you use it, see if it brings you value like it's brought to Orlando, just shoot me a text or email and I'll get you access. And as far as Huntington Beach and my bootcamps, if you really want to come to those things and they're really not in your budget and you want to try to work, we can work something out so that you can get the education you need to get the justice that our clients deserve. Actually, that should be a quote. Get the education needs and get the justice you deserve. Trademark

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:07:30

That.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:07:31

I'm going to trademark that. I think that's a brilliant, a brilliant idea. Oh, one last thing, because you used to do a little bit of criminal work, didn't

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:07:40

You? Yeah. So when I was a newer lawyer, I would do a lot of criminal. Whatever you want to pay me some money, I will do it. And criminal clients are the best because they're not a pain in the ass. As long as they don't have to go to court-

Dan Ambrose (: 01:07:55

The innocent ones are a pain in the ass. The guilty ones are just glad they got a lawyer.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:08:00

Mine were all guilty now. No, but from my experience, they were great. As long as they don't have to go to court, they don't bother you. So I did a lot of criminal stuff. I liked it. It's almost like being in high school. When you do your criminal court, because you go to all the different courts and then you're just talking to all your friends. I know.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:08:19

That was a good thing.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:08:20

Hey, what's going on?

Dan Ambrose (: 01:08:22

I used to do that quite a bit. Go around. I used to get a record. One time I got to eight different courts, eight different court appearances in one day. That's

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:08:31

A lot.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:08:32

That's hustling, man. That's like one court to the next, getting in there, knowing people, getting squeezing to the front of that. You

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:08:39

Had a big file.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:08:40

Oh, dude.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:08:42

I have a good story actually about my dad. So my dad did a lot of criminal cases too. So my dad, I was working with him and he had our office manager, Jimena. And my dad came back to the office and he had a big stack of files like this, and he puts them on Jimena's desk. He puts them on there. And then later on in the afternoon, Jimena goes to me, she's like, "Armando, whose files are they? Isn't that ... " And I said, "I don't know my dad." I think my dad put them on. Anyway, they were the public defender's file. They were the public defender's files. The public defender always has their own desk there with their stack of files. So my dad had gone to court and he had put his file down, but he had taken the whole stack of files with them.

(: 01:09:40

And later I found out public defenders were all being screamed at by the judge because they couldn't ... None of the cases could be heard because they're like- Can't find their file. We can't find our files.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:09:55

I remember going to those criminal courts, I'd have a mental folder and the client's name on it, so I can remember it and a piece of paper in there. And maybe the police report, if I had it yet, but it was like somebody ... I have a briefcase that was empty. Just carrying a briefcase around courts. I don't need papers up there. I think I got some police report, documents and stuff like that. All right. Those were the days. Thank God those days of youth are beyond us now. I think that a lot of valuable lessons learned and sitting around those courtrooms getting yelled at because Shemik and Sima and Jorge, a couple, they're down in trial right now. They're actually here

(: 01:10:34

Getting ready because Shemik's in from New Orleans and they're doing this case down in El Centro. And the judge is yelling at Simon. It's her first trial and he's gotten her up raising her and having her actually questioning her about a proof of service. And she's all nervous and stuff. I can see in her face she's being traumatized. And I tell her, I'm like, "This is good for you. " Because Shamik's like, whatever the judge wants to do here if he yells at me. But I said, "This is good for you. " And she's like, "How is getting yelled?" You go get yelled at and see if ... No, I said building thick skin, you're going to be appreciated, but you can't appreciate it when you're young, getting yelled at by those judges. But it takes some ...

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:11:16

When I was one of my first criminal clients, I was represented a juvenile and he was being detained and I didn't realize the next day is when the judge typically will hear the detention. So on that day, I was arguing for my client to be released. The mom was sitting there. She had paid me and the judge wouldn't release him. It was a hearing master. It wasn't even like a real judge. And when he denied my request under my breath, I just said, "That's ridiculous." And the judge said, "Would you say Mr. Castelleri?" And I said, "Nothing, Judge." He's like, "No, what'd you say?" I said, "Nothing, Judge." "What did he say? "I said," Okay, Judge. I said, That's ridiculous. I'm sorry, Judge. "And then he's like, " Marshall, cuff him. "So I got cuffed. Literally, I got cuffed and I think he was trying to scare me.

(: 01:12:09

And he's like, " Son, your father would never do that. He was very respectful. "You need to learn a lesson. You need to be respectful. I'm sorry, Judge. So he had me cuffed and he's," I'm going to have a contempt hearing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. "And I was cuffed for 15 minutes and then they released me and then I left. And then the next day, the mom fired me.

(: 01:12:32

So I learned a lesson. I did learn a lesson. One, you can't take any case personal as far as whether the judge, if he slams on your case, whatever, just take it because you're going to have to appear in front of the judge anyways afterwards. And the client stabbed me, right? I'm fighting for her kid the very next day. She fired him.

Dan Ambrose (: 01:12:55

The clients turn on you like that, dude. You fucking go in there, laying down, taking a sword for them, and then boom, they turn on you don't care if those are the shit happens.That's nerve wracking. But all right, Orlando.

Orlando De Castroverde (: 01:13:05

All right, man. It's

Dan Ambrose (: 01:13:05

Been a good time. Thanks for coming. Now we got our mugs, dude. We finally had a drink of water. All right. Thanks. All right.

Voice Over (: 01:13:14

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